HHH - Matt Adler
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[00:00:00]
Nicole Hammond: Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Hiring Happy Hour.
Matt Alder: Thank You.
Nicole Hammond: Uh, this is a fun one for me, as prior to hosting this show, I had only been on a few podcasts, and one was of my dear friend that we have here today.
He is one of the most [00:01:00] forward-thinking, globally respected voices in the talent acquisition space. He spent over two decades at the forefront of how companies find, attract, and hire people, not just documenting the changes happening in the industry, but actively helping leaders get ahead of them. Whether it's the rise of AI in recruiting, which we are all familiar with, skill-based hiring or employer branding, he has consistently been the person pointing around the corner before everyone else catches up.
He's a published author and keynote speaker who has taken the stage in 18 different countries, and he is the producer and host of the Recruiting Future podcast, one of the world's leading podcasts on talent acquisition. Please join me in welcoming Matt Adler. Welcome to the show, Matt.
Matt Alder: someone else's podcast.
Nicole Hammond: mean, yes, it feels so crazy to be on the other end with you, and I'm very excited to have you here today and share your wealth of knowledge and truly share with our [00:02:00] audience so that they can catch up with the rest of the world on just everything that you've been educated on and share and have kind of trend set for this industry.
So it's really great to have you here.
Matt Alder: Thank you.
Nicole Hammond: So we're gonna dive right in, um, because I know you have a lot to share with our listeners, our audience around this topic. And so I want to just, one, learn more about you, but hear what your hiring happy hour is.
Matt Alder: It's an interesting, interesting question. I think that when you have been i- in a career for a long time and around an industry for a long time, what you see is you see various patterns starting to repeat themselves. Now, they're never the same, um, they're never exactly the same. They're always different every time around.
But you can... Well, you can see common threads, um, emerging,
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: We're obviously going through a very disruptive time at the moment, principally driven by kind of rapid advances in technology, and it really [00:03:00] does remind me of much earlier in my career When I was working
for an ad agency and the internet had just arrived
or it had been around for a few years, but it had just arrived in terms of consumer and business circles. And we were having to build a team very, very quickly to deal with this new technology, and it was just very difficult to find the right people with the right experience because no one had any
experience The people who had any kind of experience were just beyond the, budget that we had.
So, I had an amazing sort of couple of years dealing with that and building, you know, a fantastic team by really kind of getting back to, basics. And it's interesting to reflect on that and to see what AI is doing now, how disruptive that is, and how people, you know, are confused about what skills they need, how do they build teams, how do they reskill people. [00:04:00] there's some really fascinating parallels.
Nicole Hammond: This is fascinating because I haven't really thought of it in this way, and I agree that history repeats itself. And to compare the milestone of the internet to now the world of AI, uh, makes sense. I think what would be helpful though is based on your experiences the first time around, what are kind of those similar traits or things that we should keep in mind as we look to embrace AI or make it part of our everyday activities, both professionally and personally?
Matt Alder: Yeah. There's a few, there's a few, there's a few things. I think that the, the, the pace of change and the amount of disruption is something not to be underestimated. So I think one of the biggest issues with AI is it's not good at everything, but it changes very quickly. So I was literally having a conversation with someone this morning, a pro- product director this morning, talking about, um, product that they were building, and there was a bit of a [00:05:00] leap of faith there because they had to start building a product with AI that the AI couldn't actually yet deliver on. But they were comfortable that in six months down the line, it would be able to do it. Um, and that is a great example of the sort of mindset that you need to have. If we look backwards to the, to the internet, um, it was very similar, but it, it took a much, it took much longer.
Nicole Hammond: Sure. Sure.
Matt Alder: Going and talking to people about, um, finding jobs on the internet back in Sort of the year 2000. And at that time, not everyone had access, and actually access was pretty slow. So, you know, w-Wi-Fi hadn't been invented. Um, it was all, you know, it was all dial-up. It was really slow. And actually the,
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Matt Alder: Things that were being said and the promises that were being, being made didn't really fit with the, the reality. However, as we kind of move forward through time, it kind of more than delivered on
Nicole Hammond: Oh, yeah.
Matt Alder: Took a few years. And I think AI is doing the same thing, [00:06:00] but it's, it's getting there in, in months, if not even weeks, and sometimes
Nicole Hammond: Yep
Matt Alder: So I, I think the lesson to learn from that from a human perspective, um, is, is really very agile about how you think about things.
So y-you... what you know to be true one day can be not true the next day. And I think sometimes that's very difficult
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Matt Alder: To kind of get their heads around. And the team that I was working with back then, we were very good at doing that. We were very good at, um, you know, passionately believing that something was the case on Monday, and then that would change, and by Wednesday, we'd, we'd adapted, we'd realigned, um, a-and, and we'd adjusted, you know, adjusted what we were doing.
But, but actually larger vision was always there. We're always going in that direction. But the, the path to get there is a very twisty, turny one,
Nicole Hammond: Oh, yeah.
Matt Alder: and i-it's just really important to have the right mindset to, to, to deal with that. And I think that [00:07:00] is, that's the... It was a challenge then. It's more of a challenge now 'cause it's
Nicole Hammond: Yep.
Matt Alder: but it's the same ch- but it's the same
Nicole Hammond: Yep, it's fascinating 'cause all I hear is that noise that I remember when the, you know, internet was going of like just dialing up and waiting and waiting. And, and now I think back in this moment and how I, you know, was so impatient, and now I take it for granted of how quickly it works. Um, and then you talk about the speed.
Yes, back then we had a little more time to adapt and change to what was coming next, and it almost felt a little more, um, foolproof, right? We knew what was coming, and to your point, it wasn't changing as quickly, so we didn't have to level set this mindset. Um, change has been something that we have all dealt with throughout our time, and I think COVID did a good job of level setting that we never know, right?
There is uncertainty
Matt Alder: exactly.
Nicole Hammond: At a new level of, of accepting change. And what great timing with AI now, to your point. But how... Help me, because I am going through this like [00:08:00] everybody else. How do I set that status quo when I'm working with customers, when I'm working with teams of where what I said on Monday might change on Friday, and the mechanisms to help all of us stay aligned?
Matt Alder: That's where I think vision is an important part of this because actually being able to talk about where we're going, how it's gonna make that change, um, and, you know, doing that in a credible way is, is, is the key to, to all of this. And I think that what's changed is we don't necessarily know quite how we're gonna get there.
But I think we can be... You can look at what's going on, you can look at where it's headed, where it's likely to go. Um, you know, I g- I'm gonna give you example. For, for, for example, huge amounts of uncertainty about
Nicole Hammond: Oh,
Matt Alder: the pricing of
Nicole Hammond: yeah.
Matt Alder: Um, you know, the building of huge d- huge infrastructure, building of data centers.
Is this a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Government regulation, all of these kind of things, may well affect the speed of [00:09:00] development. However, because, you know, businesses in particular behind the, the cutting edge because they, they kind of have to because it takes time to do
Nicole Hammond: Yep.
Matt Alder: Even if, even if nothing changed, there's enough and ability out there already to fundamentally change the way that recruiting works just with what's available right
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: Um, and I think that you can look at that, you can see that, you can see the patterns, and, um, you can, you can build a vision, you know, build, build a vision based on that, and I think that's an important... That's a really important thing to do.
Nicole Hammond: That's good. And I think, again, just triple-checking what we're doing internally to make sure that it aligns with what you're saying, because I do think because of the pace of innovation, the communication, the alignment, and it's just more conversations, right? Um, not everyone reads every document that you send out.
And so what are other mechanisms, whether it's videos or messages, to get ahead of this stuff so that it's at the front of their mind. But to your point, thinking about long-term vision. So that's [00:10:00] helpful. How do we get ahead of what's real versus hype, right? As we think about future-proofing hiring in this AI era, uh, who are gonna be the real winners versus, you know, what's just a shiny new object?
Matt Alder: the real winners will be the people who actually deliver what they, what they promise because, uh, we're in a, we're in a kind of a strange situation at the moment where g- g- you know, people can make promises, people can say things that will happen, and, uh, you know, there's, there's a lag time till we actually know whether that is, um, whether that's actually reality.
But I think the people who consistently can deliver what they promise, who can really change recruiting for the better, are the ones who are gonna, uh, you know, are the ones who are gonna ultimately w- you know, win, win in this, if that, um, if, if that, if that makes sense. And I think that really, you know, it's a difficult, it's a difficult kind of situation because people need to make a, make a judgment about what's happening, and you're making a judgment in a, in a time of, like, massive, um, massive [00:11:00] uncertainty But I think that y-y-you can get a sense of what's real and what's not real if you really think about it.
If something does sound too good to be true, it probably is, even in a world where, um, you know, the, the, the impossible seems possible within, within, within a few, within a few weeks or months. So I think it's just about h-having that scrutiny, asking the right questions, um, and also just having a sense of what you think is possible with the technology, um, and, uh, you know, really kind of analyzing the things that you're being told, if that makes
Nicole Hammond: Yeah. And tell me if I'm accurate in this. I think organizations out there really have to invest in setting up that foundation, right? To your point, we are moving even faster. We have to be even more agile, and in the world of agentic AI, you're building upon agent, upon agent, upon agent, upon agent. What I've seen in where the ones that are truly executed and built is that not far after the vision, I can test, right?
So they've already built that foundational layer, so now I'm [00:12:00] living in a world where even if it's something seems too good to be true, weeks, months later, I have my hands in it and I'm testing the reality. Is that a fair statement?
Matt Alder: Yeah, I think that's the, I think that's the big thing. I think that, um, know, this is all about trust, and I think that trust has to be earned and trust has to be built. and ultimately, people are gonna work with people that they trust because, you know, particularly just in such an uncertain and confusing time.
I think that's a critical aspect to this. And I think the advantage that AI has over where the internet was is the speed because we can see very
quickly
Whether, something is gonna work out and something's gonna deliver what it says it does. But at the same time, there are a huge amount of variables around this.
It's not just about the technology. It's not just
about
the vendor. It's also about how things are implemented, the, culture of the, [00:13:00] employer, all of those kind of things. And it's interesting that the companies I'm seeing who are making the biggest-- the employers that I'm seeing who are making the biggest strides with AI at the moment in talent acquisition are all AI companies basically because it's just kind of in their DNA
to use it.
So, that's also a really big factor in this.
Nicole Hammond: I hear you on that, of practicing what you preach. Our CEO has, you know, tried and true tested us to have AI as part of our everyday, but now we have an internal AI committee to kind of share those knowledges across departments so we're all able to be effective in our day-to-days with something that another department might have thought of, um, that can move us forward.
So I've heard from you the topics of, you know, trust. I've heard the topics of execution versus vision. I've heard the topics of implementation culture and kind of, um, a pr- approach of truly trying [00:14:00] what you may create as an AI organization. As we think about leaders, hiring leaders, only 37% feel they are truly prepared for the impact of AI.
Along with all these topics, what else can we do to prepare them and make them successful in embracing and adopting AI?
Matt Alder: I would say that the 37 who think they're fully prepared for it are either, not quite telling the truth or they're not aware of what the impact is gonna be. I'm, not sure anyone can fully
prepare
For the impact of this. I think, though, that the way to think about it is you have to think in a very big strategic
picture I think sometimes we can get focused on the minutiae, the, really kind of small things, and actually I think you have to take a step back and say, "How is this adding value? How is this going to add value to our business, and what's going to happen?" So [00:15:00] an example. So at the moment, you know, many, companies are searching for, efficiency and productivity, and in some cases that, that, that, that's, um, uh, it sort of led to the loss of, roles or, downsizing or whatever. so that's kind of a, risk that's sort of out there. I think from a talent acquisition perspective, there is a lot of talk about, AI's gonna take on all the administrative burden, it's gonna take on the boring stuff that we do, and it's gonna free us up to do... To do what? The interesting stuff, the valuable stuff. And when I ask people that question, I very rarely get, a fully formed answer. I'll get things like, "The valuable stuff. My team can do what they should've been doing in the first place." And that's the key bit. That's the key bit. It's like if it's gonna free up this time, what is it that you are gonna be doing that adds value to the business?
And if you can easily [00:16:00] explain
that Then, you're
going to thrive and get the resources that you need. But if you can't, then there's a big danger of, you know, of kind of force reduction and all those things that are going on. And I think that it's thinking about things like that is actually more important than trying to get your head around exactly what the technology's doing today, tomorrow, whenever.
I think it's the where does this add value to the business, and how team gonna add value to the business using AI as a tool to do that? I think that is the question that, that people really need to be addressing.
Nicole Hammond: I appreciate that. I'm asking it to myself right now. I have plenty of answers, so I think I'm okay. But it, it's an interesting point to think about it and not focus so much on the AI, but focus on what value will you be providing. And so as I think about a recruiter or TA space and humanizing hiring, I think of that people piece of the hiring process that can be their focal point.
I think about the [00:17:00] strategy, which is a big word with not a lot underneath it unless you truly define what those objectives are within your strategy, right? Um, my question to you, and this is a big one that I've seen come up with a number of our customers that we have discussions around AI. AI to support and provide efficiency, I totally get the value.
But there's been this conversation around decision-making AI. What do we think about it in a world where bias is very important not to have? How do we feel?
Matt Alder: Yeah, it's a good, it's a good question, and it-- I suppose it depends what you mean by decision-making because, you know, from a legal Yes. in many, many countries, um, AI is making decisions on who gets hired is, is not gonna
Nicole Hammond: No.
Matt Alder: something that can
Nicole Hammond: No.
Matt Alder: However, um, you, you take a step back from that, and there's a whole thing about what actually is a decision, and that's gonna be kind of an interesting, an interesting area. I think about this, I think you gotta think about where [00:18:00] it's best to kinda line AI up, where it's best to line humans up, and I don't think that is gonna make-- be making the final decision on
Nicole Hammond: No.
Matt Alder: Anytime
Nicole Hammond: Forever.
Matt Alder: Anytime
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Matt Alder: Although, we'll see. We'll see how things, see how things pan out. So it's all about having the human judgment in the right place, and I think that is more complicated than it sounds because if you truly think about it, there are things that, AI can do that humans can never do, and there are things that humans can do that an AI presumably can never do.
I'm not gonna say
never Never say
never in this environment. I think that's an important distinction because I think sometimes people get a little bit, mixed up because of, their career and what they do. So, AI system can read a resume, and interpret a resume better than a human will ever be able to do. a human recruiter can do is [00:19:00] understand what that kind of experience might look like in practice in their team or in
their, business in a way that, at the moment, an AI can't. So it's just kind of understanding if that's the case, where do we put the machine, and where do we put the human? And there are some instances of that where it's not obvious, and actually people might be quite upset because they think that they're gonna be better, um, than the AI at doing a pacif- a specific task when actually, you know, the science is gonna say that's not, that's not the case. So I think it's a quite an emotive area, and it's quite difficult to do.
But, really, you know, relationships and, persuasion are absolutely the domains of humans, as are, you know, final decisions when there's nuance involved. we really, really need to think carefully about actually where can I... where is the AI gonna always be better than
humans.
Nicole Hammond: I think about our product, and I think of top of funnel and high [00:20:00] volume hiring, right? And I appreciate Winston and the AI that we have, um, looking at resumes, matching, et cetera, but also taking into account screening questions, et cetera. As I think about being a recruiter or hiring manager in that process, I want that help top of funnel, right?
But it is also my job to double-check the why, right? The details as to why did you select these five of 100? Um, and it tells you, right? So I think that's an important piece to AI as well, is providing you the why it did what it did, and the, the support, I won't say decision-making. The support it's providing you in the recommendation it's creating is that detail that you can go into.
We've seen a lot of customers where you have different individuals, right? You have the 25-plus year recruiter that's done this all her life. She remembers the paper version of a resume that was scented, and she wants all that detail and, and doesn't trust AI. And then you have these other, you know, new to the [00:21:00] industry, new to the role that are like, "Hey, make my life easier.
AI everything. I'm modern, I'm hip, I'm happening. Give me, you know, an agent everywhere." And so to meet the needs of both of those audience by providing that choose your own adventure of, okay, here's the output, but here's the detail for that person that doesn't trust or wants more, um, I think is a very important factor to the human decision-making, right?
Matt Alder: I, I agree. I think that that level of explainability is, is, is very important because that's what builds
Nicole Hammond: Exactly.
Matt Alder: One of the biggest challenges with this is gonna be building trust with the candidates because there is just so much, you know, negativity and bad publicity out there about, you know, AI making decisions about jobs and people being rejected in seconds, because the machine said no. not a lot of it is actually based on, fact, but it does all add up to a perception of, mistrust. And I think it's, really important [00:22:00] that, we do a lot of work to really make sure that the candidates trust, the
process And part of that is having that explainability and that transparency because, you know, particularly at the moment, particularly at the top of the funnel, it's a very poor experience for candidates because there's just too much volume for humans to deal with.
And if AI can do a better job of that, that's a really positive
thing.
But that's the kind of message that isn't cutting through at the moment. So I think that building that trust on the candidate side is just as important as it is at building the trust with the recruiters.
Nicole Hammond: a It's a great point because we see today and, and even in the past few years, right? What was trusting and appreciated by candidates who are also consumers of a lot of the products of the companies they're applying to is, "Hey, sorry you didn't get this one, but join our community and we'll, we'll make you part of this talent sourcing pool," right?
And now that's not cutting it. We need to take it a step further, and it's almost this, um, reverse [00:23:00] matching or recommendations to that candidate based on the resume that they did share to say, " Sorry, this isn't the right role for you, but have you thought about X, Y, and Z?" And truly taking it a step further so that we are coaching them in that direction.
Do you think that that will be well received? I mean, 'cause you're still not sharing the full picture.
Matt Alder: I think, I think it will, um, to, to, uh, to a kind of a great extent. I think that, you know, at, at the moment there's just no feedback or no Yeah. there at all. So I think that anything constructive like that is a, is a really big step forward. But also what we have to remember is this is a very emotionally driven process for people.
There is so much at stake and so much going on. So sometimes, you know, when you give people what is really accurate feedback about why, why they didn't get the job, necessarily
Nicole Hammond: Totally. Oh, totally.
Matt Alder: Uh, it, it's a very nuanced and tricky area, and it's just so much more [00:24:00] than just a black hole, candi- candidates get no information.
If they had proper feedback, everything would be fine because it won't be. But it can be better, and I think that, um, the-- I think one of the, the things that the AI can potentially do, which is, which is, which is fantastic, is really kind of unearth skills and, uh, you know, transferable abilities in people and match them to jobs and industries they wouldn't have
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Matt Alder: They wouldn't have ever thought of. provided that the employers accept that as much as the candidates do, um, we could see a real kind of sense of mobility across the job market that we've never had before, which will be brilliant for everyone.
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Yes. The transferable skills is definitely where that will help. Uh, a lot of individuals that I've spoken with recently have talked about the hiring aspects that they find more important these days is the empathy, the EI. Um, and I don't know if I would say that [00:25:00] AI has really mastered this area, right?
And I think it comes back to our original point of you do need humans in the hiring process, and this allows them to have the strategy to focus on these components. What are your thoughts on, you know, EI, those, those skill sets of grit and perseverance that you wouldn't necessarily be able to get off of a resume?
Matt Alder: I think that's a really, I think that's a really important point because the, the, you know, the, ultimately, this is a very, very human thing. You know, d- moving jobs is the one of the biggest decisions that people can, that people can make. There are all kinds of factors that go into that, and I think that talking to, having a human you can talk to who can guide you through that process and help you is, is just, is just invaluable.
I mean, y- uh, you know, if you think about it, if we got to the point where you were 100% convinced that a plane could fly itself through every single kind of permutation of what could happen, [00:26:00] and it's safer than a human flying it, would you still get on the plane without a pilot?
Nicole Hammond: No.
Matt Alder: I think that's, you know, that's the thing.
Or certainly not at the moment. So I think, you know, with recruiting it's the same. It's like you, you have those humans involved. Now, I think that what's important in terms of, you know, getting that nuance out of people's application, I think that that's something that we've really got to think about how humans and AI can work together to
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Matt Alder: Because the AI can provide the, the clues and the hints and the human, if they've got the time, or hopefully they now have the time, um, you know, can have the conversations to, to kind of discover that.
So, um, I'm hoping that's another sort of step in the right, in the right, in the right direction.
Nicole Hammond: mean, it might be next week we'll hear about it, right? 'Cause it's moving so fast.
Matt Alder: exactly.
Nicole Hammond: Um, I want to switch to a different type of happy hour, right? Um, you are a master of this craft, uh, and have always been on the forefront, and I think a lot of what you said today is so valuable to our listeners as they [00:27:00] look to embrace AI and, you know, honestly go through what they may be doing and what they could be doing, uh, to help support this continuous fast pace.
Uh, but who is Matt outside of work, right? What brings you happiness? What is your happy hour as you think about your personal or just any time you're not being a genius in the world of AI and the TA industry?
Matt Alder: I love spending time with my family. That's, uh, that's kind of really, really important to me. Um, I love socializing with people. One of the, the biggest kind of, um, you know, loves of my life outside of my family is actually the theater.
I love going to the theater. I did a
Nicole Hammond: Oh, wow.
Matt Alder: and, uh, yeah, that's kind of something that, um, something that I kind of really, um, really appreciate and enjoy and, uh, something that's very human. Even with, uh, even with the te- technology behind it, it's a very human moment going to, uh, watch a play or a musical, um, you know, in, in, in the flesh, as it
Nicole Hammond: Oh, beautiful. I remember as a kid, my [00:28:00] mom would take me to London quite often, and we would go see Shakespeare in the Park. Do they still have that?
Matt Alder: Ah, they certainly do, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all over the place. And I think
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Matt Alder: Funny, it's, um... because you kind of think about it as, like, what makes it different to the cinema or anything like that, and it comes down to something that w- my old, one of my old drama lecturers said, which is, "When you go into a theater, there's a shared experience for the two or three hours that you're there, and you are sharing that experience with the actors on stage.
So you all come out two or three la- year- two or three out- years? Two or three hours later, having had this change ex- having had this shared experience and, and being changed as humans because you were all together." And I was like, that's a really powerful and interesting way to, to think about it, and it's where, you know, the theater is, is kind of potentially so much more powerful than the cinema because of
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Matt Alder: Because of that human
Nicole Hammond: Yes. And it's never the same thing twice, right? As you think about even for the performers or the artists, uh, night one is totally different than night three, whether [00:29:00] it's their motivation or pizzazz or the way they say something or the way they handle a certain situation. But I love that because I think- Recently going to a Broadway play, it was, uh, a famous person's first night of opening, and they just were s- you could tell the energy, right, of the crowd
Matt Alder: Yeah.
Nicole Hammond: the people on stage.
And she might have perfected her lines, you know, the 10th time she did it, but she was just up there vulnerable, um, to this audience, and I felt that energy. So I can definitely relate
Matt Alder: went to see a production of Hamlet once that had an incredibly famous actor in the lead role, and actually probably the majority of the audience had come to
Nicole Hammond: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Matt Alder: Literally just before, before the performance started, the director came out and went, "He's hurt his back. He's not, he's not in it
Nicole Hammond: Oh,
Matt Alder: And there was just this
Nicole Hammond: no.
Matt Alder: and he went, "Which means you're in a very privileged position because you get to see the Hamlet debut of the guy who was an understudy who was playing Horatio." [00:30:00] the audience kind of turned from being, you know, disappointed and, and just gutted to really just kind of willing this guy on, and it became this really interesting, as I say, shared experience that,
Nicole Hammond: wow.
Matt Alder: You know, everyone was doing this for the first time, and this guy had the most impossible kind of shoes to
Nicole Hammond: Sure.
Matt Alder: But the audie- the audience wanted him to
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Matt Alder: Just... Yeah. It was, it was fascinating. Um,
Nicole Hammond: I love that. I love that. Aw, thanks for sharing. Um, all right. Our third and final part of this, and I love this, uh, this or that. Have you played before?
Matt Alder: I
Nicole Hammond: you can choose one or the other. You can say and, and choose both. You can choose neither. You can elaborate or you can just let me know, but we're gonna go through a number of topics, um, and
Matt Alder: Okay.
Nicole Hammond: Learn more about you. All right, first one, resume or LinkedIn profile?
Matt Alder: LinkedIn profile.
Nicole Hammond: Find me or find you?
Matt Alder: [00:31:00] Find
Nicole Hammond: Okay. foundation first or feature first?
Matt Alder: Foundation first, definitely. I think that, um, you know, we're, we're talking about strategies and purpose and vision and all of that kind of stuff. That's, that, that's just really, that's just really important to know where you're going and what you're building on.
Nicole Hammond: Agreed. I live this. Uh, integration or another point solution?
Matt Alder: Oh, interesting. Um, I... Ooh, uh, I don't know. I, I'm gonna go neither 'cause I think this whole space is, I think this whole space is changing, and I think the way that we think about how things integrate and what's a point solution and what's not a point solution is really gonna evolve. So I'm gonna say neither.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah. Next time I'll have agentic in there automated interviewer, live human.
Matt Alder: Both
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go for both because I think that they both have, uh, a role to play. I think that interview, top of the funnel, a way of... I think interview is maybe the wrong
Nicole Hammond: [00:32:00] Okay.
Matt Alder: I think it's the opportunity for the candidate to work with the AI to pull out extra information that might be
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: puts them on a par with everyone else. Um, and then, you know, I think a human interview la- later on, absolutely essential.
Nicole Hammond: Love it. Love it. Uh, innovation under the hood or innovation for show?
Matt Alder: That's an interesting one. Um, I d- I mean, definitely innovation under the hood. Um, the reason I was hesitat- hesitating there is I thought you were gonna say, rather than innovation for show, I thought you were gonna say building in public. Um, so which, uh, wh- I would have, I would have gone for, for that one because I think that's always
Nicole Hammond: Wow.
Matt Alder: But, um, you know, definitely innovating for stuff that's, that's real and stuff that's gonna make a
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Yes. I loved your point earlier about, you know, AI that is the right AI based on execution versus just vision. I think that's very important in today's world, 'cause a lot of people are showing some shiny things, um, but they never come to fruition. Uh, [00:33:00] AI assistant or AI decision-maker?
Matt Alder: gonna say both
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: ' cause I think AI assistant, absolutely. AI decision maker, I think that, you know, if you have agentic, a true agentic AI, it has to make decisions in order to do, to do things. It has to, it has to do that. Now, is it making big decisions about who gets hired? No. But it has to make decisions along the way, and I think if you don't, if you're not prepared for AI to take some decisions for you, then we're never gonna get the value out of it.
We might as well just have something that's just automated, where we know the steps and they're very predictable.
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Hire fast or hire right?
Matt Alder: Uh, hmm. That's an interesting, that's an interesting
Nicole Hammond: Aren't
Matt Alder: they are fun, aren't they? I'd, I'd say yes and no to both of
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: I think it, I think it depends on the circumstances. I think that, um, you know, hiring fast can be, can just be
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Matt Alder: you don't do it properly. [00:34:00] Um, hiring right what you wanna do every single
Nicole Hammond: Sure.
Matt Alder: If it's set against the opposite of hiring fast, sometimes hiring right, if it takes too long, isn't hiring
Nicole Hammond: I- I like that twist. Okay. Um, reward or recognition?
Matt Alder: I'm gonna say reward.
Nicole Hammond: Okay. All right.
Matt Alder: Say reward.
Nicole Hammond: Right.
Matt Alder: Yeah.
Nicole Hammond: We're gonna switch to some fun ones here. Uh, Monday motivation or Friday energy?
Matt Alder: Monday motivational Friday energy. Monday All right, Yes. All right. Here we go. We're on a Monday, okay, this is like a,
Yeah, exactly,
Nicole Hammond: a Beer, wine, spirit, coffee, or tea?
Matt Alder: Whoa. Wow. Um, beer, wine, spirit, coffee, or tea? good question. I'm gonna go with
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: it's nice
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: Um, although I wouldn't drink it whenever I was drinking i- instead of
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: But, um, but
Nicole Hammond: Time and a place, right?
Matt Alder: Gonna go for the,
Nicole Hammond: Monday motivation has a coffee, and Friday energy has a beer.
Matt Alder: I think that's about
Nicole Hammond: Okay, I like it. All right. mountains or ocean, Matt?
Matt Alder: [00:35:00] Oh, that's a, that's a good one. I'm gonna say Okay. lived by the ocean,
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Matt Alder: Can't, um, diss that, but I do like mountains as well. And I live in Scotland, and Scotland has
Nicole Hammond: Okay,
Matt Alder: so
Nicole Hammond: love that. And you have spirits too. Okay, noted. My husband's a distiller, so that when I hear Scotland, I'm like, "Oh, okay. Yes, yes." Uh, last one. Travel experience or staycation?
Matt Alder: Travel and experience because sometimes travel is an experience. Travel and
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Love it. Aw. Thank you, Matt. Tell our audience where they can find you or connect with you.
Matt Alder: Sure. Um, so I'm very easy to find on LinkedIn, so you can find me there. Um, if you wanna listen to my podcast, you can go to recruitingfuture.com where you can see all of the past episodes. It's also obviously available wherever you listen to your podcasts, so Apple, Spotify, or wherever else.
Nicole Hammond: Awesome, and we will include the links with this as well, so you will be able to just click that link, uh, straight to that site. Um, thank you, Matt. I truly appreciate you being on the other side [00:36:00] of the, uh, microphone for this one and, uh, joining us for this topic. I think everything that you covered, again, as I reflect it, I feel our audience will learn a lot from this, so I appreciate it and, um, look forward to more with you.
Matt Alder: you very much.