[00:00:00]
Nicole: Hi everyone, And thank you for joining another exciting episode of Hiring Happy Hour.
Jeremy: First
Nicole: and foremost, I wanna thank all of our listeners, viewers out there as you continue to share and broaden our family. The Hiring Happy Hour is growing,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: if you know anyone that you think would be great [00:01:00] because of the impact they've made in this space, or they just have some great tips that could be shared with the broader family, please reach out to us.
Let us know.
Jeremy: But
Nicole: today, our focus is on an amazing human who focuses on a topic that hopefully is near and dear to your hearts, 'cause it is to mine.
Jeremy: He
Nicole: is someone who has spent 20 years making workplaces more human, we love this word, human, more inclusive and more joyful. I love when we say joy, because your face smiles.
Jeremy: He
Nicole: is an HR strategist and consultant who has spent over two decades helping organizations stop treating people like headcount,
Jeremy: advising
Nicole: leaders at every level on how to build cultures rooted in trust, performance, and mutual respect.
Jeremy: He
Nicole: is published co-author of The Joy-Powered Organization, a dual certified HR senior professional,
Jeremy: and a
Nicole: a SHRM annual conference speaker.
But most recently, he has published a new book, People Not Tasks: A Leader's Guide to Building Solid Employee Relationships. He is [00:02:00] lead consultant and pr- president of Invigorate HR. Please join me in welcoming Jeremy York. Welcome, Jeremy.
Jeremy: Hey, Nichol. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you today.
Nicole: Oh my goodness. Um, I am so excited to have you here today because I think what we are going to talk about is core and fundamental to any company out there,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: to the points that we talked about in our earlier session, often gets overlooked. And so
excited to hear about your impact in the world, but more importantly, just the insights that you have to share with our family and our Hiring Happy Hour audience.
So
we're gonna dive right in.
Jeremy, you have an amazing background, as you've been in this space for a
Jeremy: long
Nicole: time, and I think our audience is dying to hear what your hiring happy hour is. And as we think about that topic, it means an impactful moment in your career or something that you feel has truly influenced the space of HR and TA.
So please share with [00:03:00] our audience what that moment or thing is you.
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you hit the nail on the head while you were talking about the intro about people, right? The human component of things. And for some reason, that's always really resonated with me, and it's been part of my, um, you know, my experience, and really maybe more of my mantra as I've worked in this kind of space, which takes me to the whole element of workplace culture, and how we really don't do a good job of being able to promote, um, to express our workplace culture, and really, I like to say, showcase our workplace culture, uh, in all elements of the employment relationship, especially when it comes to talent acquisition and recruitment.
It seems like we forget a big, uh, part of that when we're out there 'cause we're so focused on just getting the work done, posting the job, trying to connect with candidates. But culture is such a big part of everything, um, we don't-- shouldn't forget about it and, and don't need to forget about it [00:04:00] as we're looking at, talent acquisition and recruitment.
And one thing that I like to share with people more than anything is that culture, it's, not a perk like we treat it sometimes, where we act like, "Oh, we have a great workplace culture." We should be leading with that because it's about our lived experiences as people, and it actually attracts, it retains, it inspires, uh, people.
Or if it's a bad culture, unfortunately, it can repel people, right? Um, but it's really about, um, not just what we put on our website from all that. It's, it's about what we do when no one's watching. And I think when we think about talent acquisition and, um, that whole process, that's where my HR happy hour is, is, is, is recruitment and the recruitment process and talent acquisition from, uh, workplace culture.
So I, I look at it kind of in, in multiple phases and, uh, and, and a few of, if you'll kind of just delight me with this of, um, talking about [00:05:00] how it connects. One of them is
um, from the standpoint of what we do before we actually hire people. And I think, Nichol, this is one of the things where we forget a little bit about it, right? Yeah
You know, people are wanting to just get out there, post to jobs. "Hey, we gotta get the candidate in the door-" Sure
all of this. But we really should be focusing on what kind of messages are we sending out there about our organization to get people to want to apply?
Because candidates are researching us, right? Our, our companies, long before we ever see their resume. And, you know, they're trying to make a decision based on what they see in our job posting, in our social media, you know, from any Glassdoor reviews, any of those kind of things that they can find out about our culture.
So it's kind of like a culture preview to them, right? And our job posting in that sense is- What I would call, uh, the first culture document that people actually see from us a
lot of times Sure But yet we don't treat it like one. [00:06:00] You know what I mean?
Yep, yep. So this is interesting to me because if you asked the Nichol five years ago about culture, I would've kind
been
Nicole: like, "Ugh," you
Jeremy: like, "
Nicole: It is what it is.
Jeremy: You
Nicole: either have a good one or a bad one,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: there's not much you can do to influence, yet people try by, you
Jeremy: saying, '
Nicole: Hey guys, you know, make sure that you are having good interviews even if you're not gonna hire them, because we wanna make sure there's a good Glassdoor review,' or something in that regard."
But I think what has been a testament for me is kind
Jeremy: feedback
Nicole: from my peers. At SmartRecruiters, we've had a ton of boomerangs, and it
Jeremy: come has come to my attention that with those boomerangs, that the grass isn't greener, right? I think I've had my experiences prior to SmartRecruiters in the consulting world where I saw so many companies, and
everyone
Nicole: has their stuff, but where there were good traits of company culture and where there were bad traits of company culture.
And I do [00:07:00] believe, right,
Jeremy: SmartRecruiters
Nicole: is a place that has bred
Jeremy: empowerment,
Nicole: trust, transparency,
Jeremy: um,
Nicole: and I think it's a testament to what you're going out and doing with these organizations.
Jeremy: And
Nicole: you are absolutely right. It starts with the JD. It starts with that branding, right? Like a career site. All those things are your first point of an impression, but then to your point also, all the references or outputs that interviewers do r- on Glassdoor and other sites
Jeremy: is
Nicole: like that balance that companies can't necessarily control.
So tell us more about these .........secret sauces to, one, as a candidate, how I look at a company culture, but two, as a company, what are the components I need to keep mind?
Jeremy: I think it's interesting just to kind of talk about this, right? Is that 83% of job seekers, they're actually researching the company- Good
looking at reviews and ratings and all that before they even decide to apply, right?
Yeah. [00:08:00]
83%.
this is so important to them that we, uh, I, I've also got stats that say that 32% of candidates who left their job within the first 90 days, here we go, cited culture misalignment as- Ugh. the
top reason.
So this- I believe it
...is why this is so important, right?
For us to pay attention to, and not just before the hiring process, but it
permeates throughout all the things we do. So let's talk about the hiring process. Um, you know, the hiring process itself is a cultural experience, how you- communicate, how long it takes you to respond to people, how you treat people through the process.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard from, uh, people that are out there, job seekers, talking about, "Well, I never heard anything," or, "They never got back to me," or, you know. And, even if you give one note that says, "Hey, thank you, but no thanks. We're, pursuing other candidates," that is something, and people remember- Totally
that, right? And so every touch point along this process signals what our culture is like. It's our process, right? [00:09:00] So if the process is chaotic or it's transactional, guess what? Candidates feel that. They notice, and they remember that about the culture, and they remember, "Okay, well, if I'm being treated this way when they want me to come work for them, what's it gonna be like when I actually show up and I get there?"
So I always coach my clients to really- Focus on the efforts they put into, you know, um, promoting their culture and letting their culture really shine through this process, and also to think about how they want to, uh, come across to the candidates because we want to be able to hire for values alignment, right?
Not just the skills. The skills can be taught. They get people in the door, right? But how someone shows up every day and making sure that they're gonna align with us, that's even harder. So I would say the interview process is really a cultural audition. Both sides are auditioning, right? Me as the employer, I'm trying to show you what we're about.
You as the employee trying to show me what I'm about. And, you know, skills [00:10:00] get you in the door, but the values, that alignment, the workplace culture that says, "Hey, this is what makes me feel like I'm a part of the team", that's what keeps people there. And that's really, um, really what's important when we're going through that whole hiring process. Yes
really the next part too that we sometimes really, really drop the ball on, Nichol, is onboarding, right? Well,
Nicole: let's stop before we get into onboarding .........'cause I wanna touch on hiring process, right?
We've talked about the pay
D. We've talked about
Jeremy: doing
Nicole: your due diligence, which
Jeremy: good
Nicole: job 83% of you for doing your homework and educating yourself. I
Jeremy: AI
Nicole: makes it so easy now.
Jeremy: You
Nicole: best get that number to keep going up.
Um, but now the hiring process, and I agree with you, and I think the reality is, and I will say this as a, a stat for us to, like, measure success, 80% is good enough, right?
Jeremy: there
Nicole: are people that are gonna fall through the cracks. There are gonna people that have higher expectations on, like, how this should look.
Jeremy: But I I think technology is a [00:11:00] resource that we can use to ensure, to your point,
trust
Nicole: and transparency at the right moments, .........and then the human touch at those right moments to ensure that we are being realistic with our expectations of what success looks like when it comes to the hiring process. So
Jeremy: my
Nicole: question to you before we get to onboarding, because I think there's a lot of good content here, is as you work with companies,
Jeremy: what
Nicole: are you hearing as far as where are those points where they want communication, right?
Jeremy: I
Nicole: get whether it be email or text or Slack or Teams or whatever the, the candidate is using, we should meet them where they are in the mechanism, but what are the points within that hiring process that they truly feel they more?
Jeremy: Yeah. That's a great question, and, and let me preface it by saying right now in today's modern society of applicant tracking systems there is not an excuse for not being able to communicate to candidates where they're [00:12:00] at in the process, because we can set the workflow up in the applicant- Oh, yeah
tracking
system to send an email once the workflow changes, or the, you know, the status changes. It's easy for us to do that, but we don't do it. We don't take the time out. But candidates are dying for some type of touch point, and you don't have to do it at every stage in your process, but we definitely want to acknowledge that we received your resume.
Boom. That's a very easy one that people want some- Totally
uh, you know, some feedback on. Did they even get it, right? Two, they want to know if our, uh, resume has even been looked at, and we can easily set something up with all that. And, and are we really being considered for the job? So I think, you know, acknowledging that we've received the resume, acknowledging that it's been reviewed, and just, just acknowledging throughout the process, you know, uh, whether they're not moving forward, if they're not gonna be considered for an in-person interview, let's go ahead and notify them then.
Um, if they are, uh, moving on to the next stage, let them know what that [00:13:00] looks like. Let's keep that going. And obviously, we're gonna connect with them if we want them to interview, right? 'Cause we're gonna actually want to, you know, talk with them one-on-one, and we know we'll have that communication. But then on the back end, let's not forget if they're not going to move past that, let's notify them then and go ahead and let them know if we're pursuing other candidates.
I think a practice, at least, you know, 'cause I've been in this business for a long time, I know early on in my career, the practice was, well, let's not notify candidates or anything like that until we've hired the person and let them know.
Sure.
The workforce today doesn't subscribe to that type of um-
that type of communication s- program or style or protocol, right? Yeah. They want to
know what's happening at all times, and it's okay for us to communicate that. Even if it's just an email that says, "Hey, we're moving you to the next stage in the process." They just want to know, and I think we can easily set that up.
And let's just be transparent, and here's the other thing, and I want to use this word 'cause I think it's important, is let's be authentic-
[00:14:00] Hmm.
to who we are as an organization, right? And I don't know, maybe if we're not communicating, maybe that is the authenticity. not
Nicole: the best brand, right?
Jeremy: yes.
Exactly. Not a great way to promote yourself, at the same time, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. So, um, but I think those are the steps within the hiring process that we need to let people know things. And I think we should at least have, during the process, you know, two to four communications somehow- Okay.
uh, set out in that. Okay. And
I don't think that's much to ask.
Nicole: And I think for our listeners, that's fair, right? I think all of us know that now, to your point, uh, we are in a world where people need instant,
Jeremy: instant,
Nicole: eh, I can't even think of the right word, but instant. And so whether it's related to communication, whether it's related to gratification, whether it's related to feedback, they need that more often and easier access to it.
With that being said, I think what I've seen as you talk about authenticity, is I've seen some authenticity turn into now higher standards.
Jeremy: for
Nicole: example, I'll give you [00:15:00] one.
Jeremy: It
Nicole: used to be a black box. Now it's, "Okay, we tell you where you are in the hiring process." Now to take it a step further, we ask you to join our community, and so you're now also talent pooling, keeping them warm, being able to communicate and campaign your brand or different resource groups within your organization.
Now I think where we're seeing the world going is even more thoughtfulness related to candidates with what we're calling reverse matching. "Hey, you applied to this job, but that might not be the best role for you, but here's another one that is." Or if you are, you know,
Jeremy: nice
Nicole: and like to share, "Here's other companies out there that have roles that are also like the one you applied to or based on the skill set you have."
Jeremy: So
Nicole: I think your word authenticity is so true, but I love seeing companies take it to
Jeremy: next level.
Yeah. And I, I think I agree with you 100%. And what stuck out to me more than anything as you were describing that, that whole approach [00:16:00] was people-focused. Totally
You were thinking about the candidate, what the candidate needed, how they were getting, how they want to know about the job, and if you don't have anything for them, how you might share job opportunities or how you might share other jobs within the organization that they might be a good fit for, where you're really trying to s- look at that as being a, a people element and not just a transaction.
And I think we've been set up in such a way, especially with technology, 'cause technology's pretty transactional, right? You know, and we've introduced all this technology into the way that we recruit and how we hire, that we've kind of made our processes tran- transactional and we've forgotten about the person who's actually on the other end, who that person may be unemployed, they may be, you know, have a family- trying to provide. Let's not forget about at the other end of that resume is a human being,
right? Yes. Yes
Trying to live their life to the best of their abilities, you know, and, we can't forget about that.
Nicole: If we don't remember anything today, Jeremy's point that a human is on the other end of that resume is just [00:17:00] resonating. So one thing before we move on, because I think that this is huge, we've talked about elevation, we've talked about candidate first. I think let's talk about AI. You say we're in a world of transactional, but the world is getting smarter.
Technology is getting smarter. How do you see this entire experience for related to culture, um, changing with AI, and what would be your advice to our listeners?
Jeremy: Oh, great. That's ... And this is a topic I talk about a lot, about what do we do with AI and still keeping it personal, right? To still have the human element, and let's not just turn it all over to AI. Um, the thing is, that AI is only as good as what you train it to be, or what you tell it to be, or how your inputs are, right?
So what I've learned and what I know to be true is that you can shape how AI works with your people. So if you're integrating AI into your business, into your organization, your [00:18:00] operations, into your recruiting talent acquisition processes, you can kind of tell AI, "This is our culture. These are our values.
Here's how we talk to people. We are a people first organization. Here's how we want you to communicate with candidates. You know, here's how we want you to craft communications." We can tell AI what our, our culture is, how it looks, how it should feel, any of that, and AI can mimic those things with us in the way it interacts with people, even though they're not interacting with a human being at that point or stage in the game.
So I think it's very important for us to be very, I'm gonna use this word, very intentional about
how we program or elevate AI in our organizations to ensure that it aligns with our workplace culture. We have to educate AI about our culture just the same way we would have to an individual or human being, right?
So that it can start to behave in a way that aligns with what our expectations [00:19:00] are.
Nicole: This is great, and I think, listeners, and I'm harping on you today a lot,
but
Jeremy: we
Nicole: don't do this enough, right?
Jeremy: we
Nicole: have the AI at our fingertips, and I will tell you right now, I am going to be better about including company values and culture as a default with anything I'm writing or trying to solve when it comes to hiring.
Because you are 100% right. We need to keep that authenticity, I'm coming back to your word. We need to keep the intention, I'm coming back to your word,
Jeremy: true
Nicole: to our organization for our people. So I love this because it's easy,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: we don't keep it consistent.
Jeremy: All
Nicole: right. Keep going. Let's talk about onboarding.
I know I cut you off, but I think we've broken it into the initial,
Jeremy: experience
Nicole: application with the JD, the career site knowledge, all that. We've broken it into the hiring process,
Jeremy: but
Nicole: now let's talk about that moment that matters when someone starts that experience of [00:20:00] onboarding, whether it be prior to their start date, whether it be day one, whether it be after.
Tell us how company culture is so imperative, and what we need to do to make this effective
Jeremy: Well, this is where, you know, Nichol, so many people drop the ball, right? They invest hours, hundreds of hours sometimes, hundreds of dollars, thousands of dollars, right? Being able to find the right person, and then they hand someone on their first day a stack of papers, a handbook, a resource manual, or whatever it is, and says, "Hey, good luck. Hope you make it." I mean- ... this, this is what some organizations feel like onboarding is, and day one is not a formality. It's, our first impression that lasts for years. Or in some cases, because it's so bad, it doesn't last for that long period of time, right? So culture has to be intentionally embedded into our onboarding process, and we can't just assume that it transfers, right, on, on the things that we've been doing before. So one point that I want to [00:21:00] make is that people need to understand that onboarding is not orientation.
Orientation's paperwork, all that kind of stuff. Onboarding is about belonging into the organization, about how we induct them into our culture, immerse them into our, culture, how we get them to understand our ways of working Right? So we shouldn't spend all these weeks recruiting them only to lose them in the first, you know, 30 days-
Yes
because we handed them a bunch of, you know, paper, paperwork, and called it done. That's not what it is. You see, and here's another stat for you that I'll drop, is that 70% of new hires, they're actually deciding in the first month whether or not this experience was good and good enough for me to stick around.
they can be totally engaged, or they can dec- to, they can decide to disengage here and continue their job search, even though they're collecting a paycheck from you. That's what they're doing until something better comes along, right? That's true. But here is the jaw-dropping piece that I want to, um, kind of hopefully [00:22:00] listeners will stick with, with on this one, is that 69% of employees are more likely to stay three years after a great onboarding
experience. 69% of our hires maybe to stay for at least three years if they have a great onboarding experience that's out there.
Nicole: I think you just save a number of companies a lot of money, like if they just listen to
Jeremy: what you just said.
I mean, this is the part, and if you think about being connected or, you know, people, we, we know the Gallup studies, right?
That people leave managers. Right. They don't leave organizations and all of that, right? We know that. So we know that there's a sense of relationship that's relational, that people have to feel a relationship with the organization where they work for it to be something that they want to stick with, right?
And so we have to be able to create that from an organizational standpoint, and part of that is making sure that they have that great onboarding experience. Um, you know, and it, it's, it's, it's really important to people. It's not just about pay, and it's [00:23:00] not just about what keeps people, you know, hanging on throughout, um, their employee's tenure.
It's, it's, it's, pay doesn't do that. You know, culture isn't something that we, we just set and forget about and never talk about it again because in order for it to be a retention tool, and it, it has to be reinforced daily, right? And it has to be supported in everything that we do, like how we manage, how we lead, how you recognize people.
Um, hey, even how conflict is handled when we have that in the workplace, and we know that that's gonna be there. Um, so I think, you know, this is all part of, you know, this onboarding transitions into, like, the employee tenure, how long they're gonna stay, what that's like, and I really kinda feel like that this is at the core of- You know, my people not tasks philosophy, right?
Yeah
Is that leaders who genuinely invest in relationships, they build cultures where people want to stay and
want to [00:24:00] grow because it's relational from
all of that. Sure
And I think really, and, and what I found, you know, whenever I was, uh, working on the book is that the data is clear. It, it, it's not about pay, it's about culture, it's about engagement, it's about wellbeing, it's about, you know, connecting with the people that I work with in the organization.
Those are what keep people from departing and going elsewhere. Those are the retention tools. So we have to look at it as culture and as a daily type of practice, not just, um, something we talk about once a year, or not just the annual survey-
it's about focusing on what is important to people.
It's a workplace where people feel seen. not, not just some type of monetary bonus or something like that. When people feel like people, not like they're transactional, like just doing the work, you know, they stay. The, the, that really- So, is that simple
Nicole: so
let's do this. I wanna play a game, and this is impromptu. You're just getting me excited because I think you're right. I call onboarding that second [00:25:00] first impression, and I don't think we all do a great job of it, and I think we can, and I, I don't think it's that hard. So I wanna play a game, and we're gonna do this for two parts.
One, we're gonna do it for that second first impression for onboarding, and then we're gonna do it for kind
Jeremy: that,
Nicole: like, year to three-year tenure. So
Jeremy: let's
Nicole: take this related to company culture. W- I want us to go in back and forth, and we're just gonna name one thing that we can do in that onboarding experience to truly elevate company culture and do it right.
Jeremy: So
Nicole: I'll start, then you say One and we'll go back and forth, and we'll see how many we come up with. And everybody take notes. All right. So I think it's important to send a welcome gift, like whether it's tchotchke related to your organization, but something that is tangible for them to get their hands on, a company mug, whatever it may
Jeremy: be, as part of their welcome.
A signed welcome
card, signed by everyone in that department
Nicole: Love. Okay. Um, I think a video from the CEO or something that comes [00:26:00] into their inbox on day one that gives them a flavor of that authenticity of that company
Jeremy: Absolutely. Oh my gosh, that's, you just, like, spoke, I, I was giving you the thumbs up. And so I'm gonna say a structured onboarding program that ex- that goes out to at least 90 to 180 days
Nicole: Ooh, ooh, that's such a good one, and I'm also stalling because I need to think. I think there is also a pre-boarding component to this. So now thinking about the candidate, but indirectly getting the organization ready to have their laptop, have their employee key card if they need to get into a building, and all of that, because if it comes late, that's
Jeremy: bad first impression
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh. I actually have a story about that to where I started an w- organization, I went to work for them. I didn't have my laptop for almost a month, here's another one. Now, you may laugh, you may think this is funny, but it's really important.
Showing people where the bathroom is
how many times people have showed up [00:27:00] to a new spot and people have forgotten to show them, like, where the bathroom is, the break room is, you know, any of those kinds of things
Nicole: Okay. Another one to play on the next level down from the CEO video is a hiring manager phone call or message
Jeremy: Absolutely.
Absolutely. Love that. Love that. Um, okay. So I would say the next thing would be to have a, take the new hire to lunch or schedule a lunch within their first week, um, so they can be able to make connections with people they work with in a, a non, like, I have to do work setting
Nicole: And virtual could be both of you get Grubhub or Uber Eats and sit on a virtual lunch, right?
Jeremy: Exactly. Absolutely The informality
Nicole: informality of getting to know someone. I love this. Okay, I'm gonna take that a step further and say a buddy, right? Like 30, 60, 90, a buddy that shows you the bathroom but also is your person on who to go to for what,
Jeremy: to go, whether you're remote or [00:28:00] not
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Love to have like a new hire mentor- Yes
um, as you were saying what that is. Yep. I would say the other thing is to have, um, you know, a, a weekly check-in to, with the employee and let them drive it. What do you need? What have you learned? What was the newest thing, um, that you didn't know, um, about before you started that you've learned this week?
And just allow them to be able to derive it. Instead of you barking at them, let them share their experience with you, and you'll be surprised how much you'll learn.
Nicole: Oh my goodness, this is great.
Jeremy: Um,
Nicole: one thing that I think is imperative, again, behind the scenes, but for the candidate to have a good 30, 60, 90 is a checklist for their manager. Here are the people they need to meet. Here are the kind of like enablement programs they need to go through. Here's the things that you need to do for them in those 30, 60, 90 and have the templates and make hiring manager look like a rock star
Jeremy: Absolutely, and you stole one of mine in that [00:29:00] checklist, which I was gonna say-
making sure that they schedule meetings with other people in other departments in the organization to be able to connect and get to know what they do. Okay.
Um, I don't have any more. Do you
No, I think that's good. I think that's great stuff.
Nicole: Okay. Okay, look at us. See, okay,
Jeremy: so
Nicole: now let's broaden this, right? Like, let's go past those 90 days, and hopefully our candidate that we've hired feels amazing with all that they just got,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: let's take it to culture ongoing, right? You gave this
Jeremy: 69%
Nicole: 69% p- last three years if things are done right.
So now we've given you all the tools to do it right. How do we keep them motivated? How do we keep them energized over these years? So l- let's go back
Jeremy: to our back and forth, and I'll let you start, Jeremy
Okay. So number one, talk about culture often.
Nicole: Okay, I love this. Is that... I have a question. Is that like reminding people of the values, bringing it back to values? Or like, like
Jeremy: what
do you mean by [00:30:00] that?
So let me explain. So that's part of it, right? Is being able to talk about the, the values, the core values of the organization, why we do what we do, but it's taking it a step farther and being able to tie in work tasks, projects, interactions, goals, plans, strategic initiatives, whatever it is, and circling those and tying them back to the overall core values of the organization to let people know that the work is all related.
Because those core values, uh, that drive our culture, that's at the center of every decision we should be making, right? And our culture should be supporting all of those.
Okay. I love this. Um, I'm gonna take one that I think I see a lot of successful organizations do really well, and that is recognition. Whether it's informal or at the department level or organization level, I think having a cadence of recognition and motivating individuals by giving them that opportunity to be recognized by their peers, by [00:31:00] leadership, um, is huge
Well, and Nichol, you, you said it, peer recognition is a huge component. A lot of organizations think these recognition programs, which are really successful, um, you know, have to be driven by the organization.
Well, no, they really should be peer-driven, right? Peer-nominated, uh, kinds of folks, things of that way, where peers sit on the committee and, or whatever it is, and they'll allow people to nominate their peers. This is one way that you really suppo- support the culture from within, because the, the criteria for measurement in this recognition really should be how they live values, how they
live the core values.
So I think that's a, a big part of it, too. The other part is is that we really need to train our leaders, whether it's our managers, our junior managers, or whomever it is, on our core values and our culture and what that looks like every day to help them, one, to be able to model it, and two, to recognize it whenever they see it within their people.
And this is a, [00:32:00] a, a big area that doesn't really happen a lot, where we forget about, we think, oh, people just know what it looks like. Well, no, they don't know unless we tell them or help them understand, and so we have to train the leaders and managers on that.
Love this. Training is at the heart of me, so yes, Jeremy. Okay, transparency, and I know we've talked about this, but I think I go back and forth. Our CEO is very transparent, and there's been moments where I'm like, "Oh, is she sharing too much?"
And I I will tell you 99% of the time I say no, because I appreciate the transparency.
It
Nicole: is a feeling of cohesion. She does office hours for the organization on a monthly basis, and it's like an ask me anything, and she is honest. And I think I appreciate this because it feels like no matter what level you are in the organization, one, you have that connection to the C-suite, but two,
Jeremy: you
Nicole: are hearing the same thing others are hearing, right?
You're hearing it from the horse's mouth. I just think I called our [00:33:00] CEO a horse, but that's besides the point.
But you, you are hearing this from the source of truth, right?
Jeremy: And
Nicole: I think that transparency then emulates down into other leaders in the organization and brings a world of trust
Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, and trust is so important. And one of the things I say about trust
is that we, when I, when I do training, especially a leadership training, I ask, um, you know, 'cause we're talking about trust being the foundation of, you know, all of our relationships.
I ask people, you know, "What is the root of trust? What does trust even mean?" And, and-
Yes
people struggle to be able to define it without
using- Yeah
the word itself, right? But, um- Interesting
one of the things about trust is, is that, uh, if you think about, too, like Patrick Lencioni, uh, you know, he talks a little bit about this about trust in teams, but it's the belief that we have, uh, that other people have our best interest in mind.
So the reason that I trust you as a leader is because I believe that you're looking out for me.
Yes
Uh, what that is. And so I think trust is really, [00:34:00] uh, a big component of that. But I'm gonna piggyback off of what you just said about, you know, your leader being transparent. I'm gonna say in addition to that, authentic communications.
Mm-hmm.
Which means that you tell us it like it is, right? The good, the bad, and the ugly. And if you can't share something with us, you say, "Hey, I can't share this with you right now, but as soon as I can, I will." Right? And those are kind of communications we have instead of, you know, trying to beat around the bush or come up with- Yeah
some, some kind of excuse or anything. People can see through those, and that authenticity is what people want, right? And those authentic communications, because it brings us back to that area of being real, building the relationship, being humans, and realizing that we're not perfect and we don't know everything.
Yep. Okay. I'm gonna give my last one because this is getting too fun and we have more to talk about, um, is measuring
success,
Nicole: and, and I think what I mean by that is
Jeremy: feedback
Nicole: from the manager, feedback from the candidate, like 30, 60, ni- [00:35:00] 90 days, how's it going? But then as we continue, like performance reviews, feedback mechanisms on not only the process, but the people.
And so
Jeremy: I
Nicole: think that you need to make sure data is involved in this whole process,
Jeremy: and
Nicole: while all of you are nodding your head and saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah," I would argue we're probably not doing it as effectively as we could
Jeremy: Forward, we're not doing it all. Right?
I was trying to be nice, but yes
There are a lot of organizations out there that aren't doing it all, and, and that's not a, that's not a dig on anyone.
It's just the reality, right? And that's the thing. We, we have to meet ourselves where we're at,
right? Yeah
We all know we wish we should've, could've, would've, done a better, you know, whatever. Um, but the reality of it is we are... it is what it is, and we're, we're at, we are at where we're at, and we need to recognize that and just meet ourselves where we are and try and do better.
That's
Nicole: That's awesome.
Jeremy: what it is.
That's awesome. Okay, Jeremy, I want you to round us out on company [00:36:00] culture because this has turned into a fascinating conversation, and I hope a lot of our audience takes from this. But
final
Nicole: words as you think about where to start, impact you can make tomorrow, um, of course, your book, because I think that will be just a guiding principle for everyone.
But like, what, what else do we close with when it comes to company culture and people?
Jeremy: I think it's to pause and take a moment to step back and look at where you're at today, and be realistic and honest about your organization. Ask yourself some tough questions like, you know, is our culture well-defined?
What is our workplace culture? How would I describe our workplace culture? Does our core values, um, align with our workplace culture, or do we even have core values? Because there are organizations I work with that's, you know, they haven't developed those yet, right? And they're, they're still trying to navigate those waters.
So we have to take a moment and step back and kind of assess that and look at it and ask ourselves some of the tough questions. Then we can begin to look [00:37:00] forward and say, "Where do we wanna be? Who do we wanna be? What do we wanna be? How do we wanna show up to our employees? How do we wanna show up to people outside of the organization?"
Yeah. and when people?
stop working here, what do we want them to say about us?" And that is a key question, and that will help us guide the direction we need to go in developing our, our culture, our workplace culture, and what that looks like. And then we be- can begin to be strategic and start putting together some tactical plans around how we make this change and what we need to do.
But first and foremost is just to, one, I said it earlier, we just need to meet ourselves where we're at today and be like, "Okay, I'm gonna take that breath. Here I am. Pause. Okay, what do we need to do?" Right. And we just need to be able to kind of focus on that. That's the place to get started. Um, you know, and, and don't get overwhelmed because it will seem like it's a huge undertaking.
Totally. Um, but just be real with yourself and, uh, and break it off [00:38:00] bit by bit.
Nicole: Love it.
Jeremy: Thank
Nicole: you, Jeremy. This, this has been fascinating. I think it's so helpful, and I think there's a lot that people can take from it.
Jeremy: Now
Nicole: I know our audience wants to learn more about you. Who is Jeremy? What makes him tick? What makes him so passionate about corporate cultures and authenticity and all of components?
Jeremy: So tell us what your personal happy hour is
Sure. Absolutely. Well, you know, I wish that I had some great, exciting kinds of things to knock everyone's socks off. But, you know, outside of the office, my happy hour looks a lot like my work.
It's, it's really all about people. I, I, I'm just very passionate about human beings and people and, you know, just our, our place here in this world. And so showing up for people who, who really need it, even when they're not your clients or your employees or even in your community in a traditional sense, that's, that's really what's important to me.
Um, I, I, I believe that, you know, there's this old saying, "To whom much is given, much is [00:39:00] required," and I feel like when we have a platform in whatever way, shape, or form that is, we should put that to good use. And so, um, you know, I serve on a lot of, uh, nonprofit boards. I work with a lot of nonprofits in the area.
Uh, one board in particular- I work with, um, you know, uh, really works with marginalized people, and, you know, it, it, their mission is to serve those who are marginalized, you know, and that allows us to walk s- uh, walk alongside of those people in some of their most vulnerable moments. And, and that's not really, even though it's a board, board position, it's not board work to me. Yeah. It's, it's
more of, like, just being human, being- Yeah ... it's
a calling, just-
Yeah
helping people. Um, and I think the people not task mindset, it, it doesn't necessarily just clock out when I leave the office. It's, it's who I am. Um, and board service is a way that, you know, brings my expertise in, in this world, this work world, but also it allows me to know that I am having an impact in my community and I'm having an impact [00:40:00] with people.
And so, um, you know, every opportunity that I get to work with a nonprofit or to work with organizations that are serving other people, um, you know, it, it, it's, it's meaningful to me because I believe that's what we should be able to do, you know? Well, we all are dealt different hands of cards in our lives.
Some have a really good hand. Other people have a terrible hand, right? And, and it's not anything necessarily that is of our own doing a lot of times but, um, you know, but when we are able to give, are able to share, are able to, you know, devote extra time or help people, I think we should do that, and that's one thing that I make sure that we, not only, that I not only do at work, right, but I also do in my personal life, um, at the same time.
So
Nicole: I can see that in you. I can see it in you. You're very selfless and, and I'll take one of your words, authentic, but I think that's probably what makes you great in both worlds and [00:41:00] impactful and, and why we asked you to be on this show.
Jeremy: Yeah. I guess I find, you know, the same joy, like, when, it, it, that I get at work in doing this kind of thing even out of work. Sure.
Nicole: Sure.
Jeremy: Just watching- Yeah
people be able to find their footing and to be successful. I, I
Nicole: Yes
Jeremy: everyone be successful in their own way.
Well, I love that. I love that, and I appreciate you going out there and making that part of your personal and professional mission. It's huge. It's huge.
Um,
Nicole: all right. My favorite part, this or that. We talked about this, and I think you're gonna be a pro now that you've already,
Jeremy: indulged
Nicole: me with a game.
We're gonna do another one. Um,
so if you recall, you pick one or the other. You can elaborate, you don't have to. We've got a few here. Um, we did talk about dogs a lot yesterday too, just from a company culture perspective. So I will preface, there might be a few dog-related ones because
Jeremy: you
Nicole: mentioned that's like a low-hanging fruit for companies that wanna make culture fun or kind
Jeremy: bring
Nicole: [00:42:00] impact, especially post-COVID to a world where they're empathetic with people.
So, um, just stay tuned. There's a little more there. But you ready?
Okay. Um, resume or profile?
Jeremy: Uh, resume
Okay. Um, we're gonna dive right in. AI or no AI?
Oh, definitely AI. It's, it's the next frontier.
Nicole: We're on the same page. Okay, now let's take it to the next
Jeremy: level with AI. Skills matching or culture matching?
Oh, I'm gonna say culture matching, 'cause ultimately that's really is the big win. Skills matching's important, but culture matching is, like, the cherry on top.
Nicole: Yes, I agree. And I think from what we've talked about, it's been theme. All right, dogs in the office or work from home?
Jeremy: oh, that's a tough one. That's a really hard one, and I want to say, um ... Oh, gosh. Well, the reason I think we have this question is because I have a client that has, uh, part of their culture is to have dogs in the office, and [00:43:00] people love it. They get to bring their pets. Yeah. Everyone
loves it. So I'm gonna have to say dogs in the office, just
because- All right that client is so near and dear to my heart, and I think it's wonderful.
Love it. Love it. Okay. Office mascot or ping pong table?
Oh, office mascot.
Uh,
mission first or people first?
Oh, you are giving it to me hard
there. Oh, my gosh. Well, it's always people first with me. Like,
Nicole: Okay. have to, have to put that out there.
Jeremy: Yeah. Who said first. There can be a second, right?
Like, we
could just do both.
people first, and then we align people with the mission.
Yeah. There we go.
Uh,
Nicole: purpose or perks?
Jeremy: Purpose.
Nicole: I could have guessed one. Um, Yeah, purpose .........career site or employee referrals
Jeremy: Um, employee referrals
Okay. Um, reward or recognition
Uh, recognition
Okay. Transparency or optimism
Transparency because transparency is truth, right? It's trust. Optimism can sometimes be masked [00:44:00] in, um, I'm just gonna say it, deception.
Nicole: Yes, fluff. Fluff, call it fluff.
Jeremy: Yeah, there you go.
Um, camera on or camera off?
Oh, definitely camera on.
Yes, this is personal pet peeve of mine.
Um,
four-day workweek or work remote
or work remote? Uh, work remote
Nicole: Okay. Uh, beaches or mountains?
Jeremy: Mountains
Okay. Uh, dogs or cats?
Um, dogs
Okay. Vacation or staycation?
Oh, my goodness.
Um, vacation yes. Definitely. We
Nicole: all need one, right?
Jeremy: think as I get older, staycations are much more appealing. Yes, yes.
Nicole: And travel's expensive right now, so that's a whole other piece.
Jeremy: Um,
Nicole: okay. Uh, let's see. Um, I had another one and now I... Okay. Oh, we talked about this
Jeremy: spirits and distilleries, and we are talking about happy hours, so whiskey or rum?
I'm gonna have to go with, uh, rum [00:45:00] on that. Okay. I know I'll get a lot of hate for that probably. I'm just not a whiskey person, but, uh, definitely rum, and coconut rum at that. Okay. Look at you. I, I feel like I'm seeing Malibu
Nicole: in my mirror.
Jeremy: Malibu and Diet Coke, one of my faves.
Nicole: Okay,
Jeremy: love it.
Nicole: Love it. Um, and then the final one is,
Jeremy: uh...
Oh, my gosh, I've lost my
Nicole: train of thought again.
Jeremy: So- You were talking about the spirits ... I,
Nicole: we were talking about the
Jeremy: Okay. Um, here it is. Uh,
Nicole: happy hour out or happy hour at home?
Jeremy: Happy hour out Love it. Love it. Get out of that house. Love it. Okay ... you never know who you're gonna run into, who's gonna be your new best friend, who's, who you're gonna network with, who you're gonna connect with.
It, it's amazing.
Nicole: Oh, man. Jeremy, thank you for humoring me with a number of games today, and truly educating our audience and our family on
Jeremy: company
Nicole: culture, and authenticity, and intention, and belonging.
Jeremy: are words that are sticking with me. [00:46:00] Tell our audience where they can find you, where they can connect with you.
Absolutely. Well, you can find more information about me, uh, on our company website, which is invigoratehr.com. You can also connect with me, uh, on LinkedIn, uh, and I'm pretty active, uh, posting on LinkedIn, and those are the two best places, or you can always email me at Jeremy, J-E-R-E-M-Y, @invigoratehr.com.
Nicole: Love it.
Love it. Thank you everyone for listening today. Thank you, Jeremy, for joining us. This has been so fun and so enlightening, and I think something that everyone can take something from. This has been another episode of Hiring Happy Hour, and we appreciate you, and hopefully you are getting something out of this, and using it to make an impact in the HR or TA space.
Jeremy: Uh,
Nicole: and we will see you again soon
[00:47:00]