HHH_Andrew Porter
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Hiring Happy Hour, where we celebrate the human side of hiring. I'm your host, Nicole Hammond, and together we'll pull back the curtain on people shaping the future of work, the innovators, the dreamers, the change makers behind today's hiring experience. These are the real stories behind the dashboards.
From leaders transforming talent acquisition to the everyday moments that remind us why we love hiring in the first place, to connect people with purpose, hiring happy hours. Brought to you by Smartrecruiters, an SAP company, the AI powered software for super human hiring, helping organizations hire faster, smarter, and we're human.
Nicole Hammond: All right, everyone. Thank you for joining me for another amazing episode of Hiring Happy Hour. Uh, today we have a fabulous person and a fabulous topic, and I'm not gonna spoil the fun, but I think this will be relative to all of our audience as we think about networking and we think about just the social [00:01:00] web.
So he is a leader in resourcing strategy, hiring, transformation, and cultural change. My favorite, he is a certified Korn Ferry. 360 Coach helping leaders and organizations unlock potential through authenticity and trust, which is more important than ever these days. He is a champion of inclusion and diversity and was named as an outstanding and Financial Times BT Plus Future leader in 2017, group resourcing leader at Tang.
Please join me in a very warm welcome to Andrew Porter. Welcome to the show.
Andrew Porter: Really great to be here. Thank you.
Nicole Hammond: Now, Andrew, when you and I first spoke, we'd never met, but you've been part of the Smartrecruiters ecosystem for quite some time, and it was such a lovely. I mean authentic conversation as you have that in your description of who you are. And I was very excited when we got to start to talk about your hiring happy hour.
Uh, it's a unique perspective and I [00:02:00] think it's one that is relative to anyone in any organization and any part of organization. So I would love to hear from you, and I would love for you to share with our audience what is your hiring happy hour.
Andrew Porter: when we talked, as you said, we had kind of had a, a nice, um, conversation about it, but it, it, it really something that you said. The real thing that I enjoy and I think actually is very relevant to this audience and to anyone operating in the world that we do, is about the power of partnerships.
and the, power of partnerships for me isn't just a supplier Client relationship. It is stakeholder and recruiter relationship. It is senior leader and recruiter relationship. it literally applies to everything and I think it underpins what we do as resourcing or TA or. Recruitment or whatever terminology [00:03:00] that you want to use, talent it all about human connection and the power of partnership and how you.
leverage it
Nicole Hammond: And I love that. First of all, power of partnership just rolls off the tongue so well. Um, but there's so many facets to this, right? You've already touched upon like referrals, but also partnerships for technology, ecosystem, and then even broader than that, as we think about industry trans trends or solutioning things.
And so you. Have shared this beautiful theme, but I would love for you to share kind of some of the main areas that you've seen success with it. Right. We talked about a few of those and I think that this is, again, so relative to our audience, uh, and you can help them.
Andrew Porter: Yeah, so I mean, look, let we can, we can pick a, pick a couple and maybe we pick a couple of quite diverse ones. Um, and I think I'm gonna go with an internal one first, which is a common theme for me. You, you refer [00:04:00] to transformation and, and the things that you have to achieve through transformation. And, and certainly one of the big lessons that I've learned over the years is to affect really meaningful transformation.
When you go into an organization and you are trying to get from the, from to the to it's a, game of a team has to be one that everybody buys into. So that power of partnership for me. It's about building partnerships with your own team, taking them on the journey.
It's about, connecting with other people within the organization in, our world that might be legal, procurement, finance, and, building those strengths of partnership because on your own going through transformation, you cannot affect that on, your own. You have to do it with everybody and in concert with everybody. that, that would be one sort of simple, I guess, example. And it connects back to your point on transformation. The, the other one, I, I guess, [00:05:00] is more from a, I hate even using the word supplier, but You know, from a, a partnership outside of the organization. And I, I really struggle with the, the term supplier because it, it feels a very.
Antiquated way of referring to a partnership with another organization and another set of people that you each rely on to get to an outcome. and, and there's a couple of really quick ones, um, that I'll use as, as examples. So one is we set up something called an executive search preferred partner program, and we, we said. Very deliberately, we wanted to leverage the relationships we already had, but set it in the context of we are all in this together. If we wanna hire great people into leadership roles in this organization, then we have to do it in partnership. We have to give you what you need. You have to give us what. We need, and we also have to hold tension at times to be able to say, Hmm, not quite right. [00:06:00] You know, we need to go again, or we, we recalibrate. Um, and then there is the more commercial example of our relationship with Smartrecruiters or, um, a relationship with, um, one of our assessment providers. So. it's about how you set that up right from the outset.
You know, when you go through the complexity of selecting a partner, you need to see truth, honesty, transparency, and have that at the very heart of everything that you do when you work together. Because no relationship, we all know that from our personal relationships ever is smooth sailing. So
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Andrew Porter: Have to have something that underpins that. And I think that. You know, you talked about authenticity and transparency, but having that at the center Yeah. partnership I think is absolutely critical. So, uh,
Nicole Hammond: I,
Andrew Porter: would be, that would be the contrast of the internal and the external.
Nicole Hammond: I love that. And I, and I wanna [00:07:00] break this down a little bit because I think the internal is so important to everyone, right? We've had previous guests that have talked about, uh, TA having a voice when being able to choose best of breed and having that influence. And back to your original point around having that network internally across all of the different departments.
Um, tell us more about. If someone's looking to do that, right? Like I sit in TA and I wanna build a relationship with finance and legal and marketing and sales. Where do I start?
Andrew Porter: it probably almost sounds like I'm gonna be Dr. Andrew and giving relationship advice here
Nicole Hammond: we can turn this into a dating show. It's totally fine with me.
Andrew Porter: I, I think it's the, it's about human contact, isn't it? And, we all respond well to people who can, I guess, put themselves in someone else's shoes. I can remember talking to somebody many years ago who was in talent and said, You know, just walk a mile in someone [00:08:00] else's shoes. And, she didn't mean that literally, she meant. Put yourself in the other person's shoes and look at the situation from their perspective, rather than just automatically thinking that your perspective is the only one. And I think that underpins what you've just asked, which is how do you build relationships or seek to understand and also work with people, don't come to the table and with a list of demands, I need this, I need that.
Explain this is, what I want to try and achieve. I want to do that in partnership with you. What can I bring? What can you bring and, kind of agree those rules upfront. I, don't think that ever has failed to yield a better outcome than just kind of going very transactionally, right? I need you to review a contract or I need you to go and, You know, in the case of procurement, agree, a lower price. it has to be a partnership right from the outset.
Nicole Hammond: I love that. And I think, [00:09:00] uh, as I work in a virtual world, remote world, right? It's also how you start that conversation as I think about communicating in Slack or teams, not just starting with getting straight to the point, which sometimes I do, 'cause the days are never long enough, but having a personal component, right?
Bringing in
Andrew Porter: Yeah.
Nicole Hammond: You know, light, the friendly, the funny. And then to your point, um, walking in their shoes, showing empathy. One thing I find to work for for us when we're looking to achieve something together is what's in it for everybody, right? To your point, if I'm in their shoes, how can this benefit them?
Um, just as much as me. And so I think it is. Very good advice that sometimes we often forget in the simplest things of empathy, walking in someone else's shoes, just thinking about it from a different perspective can truly get us to a great outcome. So thank you that, that I think is a great gem for everyone to take away.
Now I [00:10:00] wanna switch to. The vendor and talking about this ecosystem, we are in a world AI first tons of innovation, moving faster than light. And it is a time where we can't keep up. Right? Uh, And so network and the power of partnership is even more important than it ever has been. So now we are good. We've built those relationships.
Tell us. The best way to get the information and to kind of build that relationship with those other vendors, partnerships to get to a strong ecosystem, but also feel supported and the trust and doing the things you need to do in today's world.
Andrew Porter: You know, you talked a lot about AI and I think, um, or you, you anchored what you asked me with, with AI being the driver of the speed of change. I think there's, there's a, there's a whole, there's a lot that you've just packed into that question. I [00:11:00] think
There's some fundamentals wrapped up in there. So let, let's talk about AI very quickly and that's a, a ridiculous statement because, You know, ai, we could literally sit on the rest of this podcast and talk about ai. I think conceptually about ai, look, it is here to stay.
It is here. It is an, it's going to become as integrated in our lives, whether that's working or personal lives, as the internet did
Nicole Hammond: Yeah,
Andrew Porter: 30 years ago
Nicole Hammond: true.
Andrew Porter: To run, to run away from that fundamental truth. Is daft. I will pick my words carefully. Um, so not to offend your audience, but it, You know, it is, it is fool in, a business setting to just kind of completely dismiss the fact
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Andrew Porter: AI is not going to have a fundamental impact. So I think for me it's about then using the partnerships to create, whether it's a personal or an organizational point of view on how AI is [00:12:00] gonna be adopted, how you're going to use it, how it's going to aid, or perhaps defeat change that, You know, we've talked about already. But I do think that you have to have a degree of pragmatism this topic, and, and what I mean by that is that it is. At the moment, I've had this debate with my own leadership team and, and with my wider people leadership team as well, which is you could run after absolutely everything really quickly and go, we're gonna adopt it
and To me that's as bad as going, I'm just going to put my head in the sand and hope it all goes away. My experience to this point is. Listen to a lot of people, listen to different perspectives and then form a point of view because the the point of view that you have as an individual, but also that is right for your team, for your organization will be completely different depending on what [00:13:00] surrounds that. for, for, for us, we're kind of taking a middle road. Which is, we definitely are embracing it. We've started, last year, we started a culture of, um, upskilling or capability upgrade with
Nicole Hammond: Nice.
Andrew Porter: Team just to kind of try it, give it a go, use chat, GPT, see what it does for you. Think about things that, um, it can help you achieve.
And this year we're taking a slightly more formal approach and kind of challenging everyone in there. Um, development plan and their, uh, their goals for this year to do something with AI and demonstrate what they've done by the end of the year.
Nicole Hammond: I would love to hear more about. The vendors are the partnerships that you use to validate that approach, right. I think fundamentally, I agree with you. Everyone needs to have the baseline come to the reality. It's not going away, so get on board or you'll be left behind. Harsh, but true. And then now it's okay.
[00:14:00] Now we've defined this strategy. We are taking on this much, not this much, which. Hands are big if you're listening. Not this much hands are small if you're listening, but somewhere in the middle. And now I wanna leverage my network, that powerful partnerships outside of my organization to say, one, am I doing this right?
What have I not thought about aha moments? Or even just feedback on the vendors I'm looking at, right? What? What do you do in that regard?
Andrew Porter: I think the, again, there's a whole raft isn't there, of different ways you can do that. Talk to people that You know and trust. Again, that's the power of partnership. That's the power of collaboration. You know, use your own trusted advisor network to, to kind of seek out people. I think also have really great. Conversations with your partners, not in isolation. And what I mean by that is don't just choose a partner and have the conversation with them. Actually, you have the conversation with all of your partners
and, and Kind [00:15:00] of get their, their thoughts and, and perspectives for what it's worth. My my view is, and I have challenged a number of our partners on this, is. Where everybody is going after this and everybody is coming to me as the client, and presenting their solution about how they're going to embed ai. The bit for me that is missing is how does your solution connect with that solution? Does connect with that solution. I'm still not sure that's actually happened yet, but I hope that my challenge back to our partners in that we work from is beginning to. Provoke that thinking because we rely these days on so much integrated technology that actually you, the answer probably isn't. This is the one silver bullet. I just don't think that exists. so I think you've got that. But then you've got things like Gartner, you've got things like, [00:16:00] all of the. Big industry, bodies who can give you that much more sort of macro, broader industry view. I think those, become really helpful to test and validate perhaps where your own thinking is. I, do think at the core of all this is you have to have a personal point of view and accept. It may be right, it may be wrong, or it may be just different to
somebody
else
Nicole Hammond: Andrew, you said something that I think is so powerful because. I would argue not a lot of people do it, and that is bringing together your partners, your vendors, to have a conversation holistically. You are absolutely a hundred percent right, that agent to agent or getting these AI or technology in general to work together is the core of the future.
Technology ecosystem. And so having all of them in a room versus one-on-one conversations is genius. There's interdependencies, there's opportunities, [00:17:00] and that to me is almost like you're building your own committee to help you through this. Not only. Strategically, but operationally, um, to ensure that the technologies are talking and that they're working to do what you need them to do.
Tell me about a time, and now I'm gonna put you on the spot, Dr. Andrew, uh, in our, in our dating show, uh, where you had to have a difficult conversation in that group, right? A time where everything wasn't peachy and things weren't flowing as seamless, and you needed something to be done about it.
Andrew Porter: Yeah, so I mean, we've, wow.
Nicole Hammond: I'm just going deep today, right? You're just, you're like, wow.
Andrew Porter: really are. It's like, um, no, on, on a, on a serious note, I mean, I, I actually have some, some live examples right now of, You know, we've got a, we've, we've got, um, a couple of different, uh, vendors now for the, for the avoidance of any embarrassment. I'm not gonna [00:18:00] say who they
Nicole Hammond: Sure.
Andrew Porter: Um, but You know, we've, we've, we've, we've got, we're a couple of years into one relationship. To three years into another, and, and it's just those growing pains
Nicole Hammond: Sure.
Andrew Porter: But my commitment the leader of the function remains that whatever and however difficult those challenges are, sit down, we have a conversation, and again, we try to appreciate each other's side of the position.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Andrew Porter: We will come to. An outcome that is mutually beneficial, but it might feel really, really uncomfortable. And it's something that I think in my professional life, I've really only grappled with probably over the last five or 10 years. I think
Nicole Hammond: Interesting.
Andrew Porter: Am not a, I'm not a fan of confrontation. I know, myself well enough.
To be able to quite happily say, that's not my happy place. maybe that's why I prefer the power of partnerships, because I [00:19:00] think even when times get difficult with a partnership, if it's a true partnership, you can. and I love this phrase because I saw it when, wicked was being, touted out in the cinema the first time around holding space for a
difficult conversation. Much was, You know, much was laughed about with Ariana Grande and, Cynthia Erivo when this particular conversation, happened. But I think there is actually a, sense of truth in, that, which is you have to hold a space where. You can bring people together and go, I'm just unhappy about this. I know you are unhappy about this, but how are we going to work together to, resolve it? I think you do because you have that truth or authenticity and transparency at the heart of that conversation. It avoids you then having to go, well, I'm going to go back to my contract and my contract says, You know, for me that [00:20:00] is the death nail
of a
commerical relationship with a partner. Because
you are literally then just getting into, I'm gonna whack you with this paragraph and
Nicole Hammond: yeah.
Andrew Porter: whack me with that paragraph. So.
Nicole Hammond: I appreciate that. I am empathizing with that. 'cause I'm going through a version of escalations that are one-off, right? And I think the solution, so thank you for the self-reflection is holding space for that difficult conversation and bringing everyone together. And a fundamental piece to your point around authenticity is everyone has the best intent.
Everyone is there with the sole purpose to solution. They are not trying to get more out of this. They are not trying to be the winner. It is for everyone to win. And I think that is where that authenticity and that relationship building has come from is that You know, that, You know, everyone is genuinely caring.
Um, so thank you. Thank you Dr. Andrew for our lovely, [00:21:00] lovely conversations today. everyone listening partners as well. If you are not investing in the relationships with your customers, with your vendors, with other vendors, and, and even taking what I would call that first step in saying, Hey, let's, let's bring the partners together.
Let's bring this audience together to work. On a seamless integration, a positive future, an elevated, uh, technology stack. Uh, please do so, try it. Um, we are going to now talk about you, Andrew. And we are going to make you smile again because it is a beautiful smile, and we're gonna switch outside of work.
Yes, I know. We, we, we should have lives outside of work, right? All of us.
Andrew Porter: You
Nicole Hammond: Uh.
Andrew Porter: should.
Nicole Hammond: So finding that balance, uh, share with the audience what makes you such an amazing, authentic individual. What is your happy hour outside of work?
Andrew Porter: I think having balance in life is really important actually. I think sometimes we joke about, [00:22:00] You know, we must have a life outside work and, I genuinely believe. that
it's probably a product of age, as much as anything else.
But I do believe what makes me happy is having really clear boundaries around what is work time and what isn't work time and, You know, getting to the gym regularly, I get a. lot of joy and happiness from feeling healthy.
that becomes absolutely sort of sacrosanct in, my day. I, reinforce time that is never sort of, sacrificed, for that.
But then I think that's only a foundation block, I think then having good health. being well, et cetera, is kind of almost table stakes for having a balance and happy life. then I think it's, You know, travel. getting out [00:23:00] music. we have two dogs. My partner, clearly, I should, say that as well.
I, think it's, all of those things in unison create balance and they're the things that you fall back on when times are more difficult at work. They shouldn't be ignored at the expense of work. They are the things that help you bounce back. From difficult days at work, so I hopefully that answers the question.
Nicole Hammond: I love it and it brings joy to me to hear it. I, I'm with you on the exercise realm, but also family, dogs getting outside. I think it's just a healthy melody of, of things. To truly get you to a good place. Music, do you play instruments or do you have a genre?
Andrew Porter: Um, no. So I would say genre wise, uh, I am very, very, I say genre agnostic. There, there's a,
Nicole Hammond: Okay,
Andrew Porter: lot that I. I [00:24:00] really enjoy, and I mean, genuinely all the way from, um, I, I love classical music and was
Nicole Hammond: nice.
Andrew Porter: With classical music, and I think anything that has a tune, um, would be what I would probably say is my genre.
Anything where there's, there's a tune, a melody, a harmony would, You know, and that cuts across all sorts, whether it's country pop.
Nicole Hammond: Love it.
Andrew Porter: You know, rock. I'm probably shy of the heavier rock end. Um, and anything that's just loud noise that hurts my ears. Um, but anything else And, and particularly live music, I think people who can play live music and make people happy and also make themselves happy by doing that I think are very, very special individuals.
Nicole Hammond: I love it. I love it In our household right now, my 8-year-old is been singing, um, and she loves her K-pop hunts, demon hunters, golden.
Andrew Porter: Oh.
Nicole Hammond: Knows it word for word. And I will tell you, it brings me such joy just to see that child sing, [00:25:00] not care about what anyone else thinks about how she sounds, and just. The joy it brings her and the whole household.
So that is our genre these days, which I won't argue with. It's pretty good. Uh, but I'm with you on the live music. I've taken my family to a few live concerts and it takes us down a theme in the household of listening Then to that, You know. Um, that artist and then we go down their personal life of where they were born, what they studied, things they love to do, the did You know of their upbringing.
And it's such a fun history lesson as we think about learning together and enjoying. And you're absolutely right. The passion of seeing people to perform and and play is, is very warming to the heart. So thank you for bringing me down that memory.
Andrew Porter: You are very welcome.
Nicole Hammond: All right. We are going to play a game of this or that. Um, we talked about this so You know how to play.
Uh, you can choose [00:26:00] one or the other. You can choose your own adventure. You don't have to choose one. I will never force anyone to do so. And you can elaborate. Um, there is a world out there of whatever you want in this part of the game, uh, because I think our audience truly enjoys this. I know I do. Uh, so we're gonna dive right into it.
You ready?
Andrew Porter: Yeah, let's go
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Resume or LinkedIn profile?
Andrew Porter: LinkedIn profile.
Nicole Hammond: AI or no? Ai.
Andrew Porter: AI
Nicole Hammond: It's not a test, but I always like to hear people's responses. Uh, customer, community or partner. Network.
Andrew Porter: partner network.
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Power of partnerships. If you haven't heard anything from today,
Find me or find you.
Andrew Porter: Find or find?
Nicole Hammond: Find, like should I go search to find you as a recruiter or, uh, should you find me?
Andrew Porter: Oh, find you.
Nicole Hammond: Okay. All right. Career path or whatever comes my way.
Andrew Porter: Oh,[00:27:00]
Nicole Hammond: I know they're good, right?
Andrew Porter: whatever comes your way.
Nicole Hammond: Yes, I agree. Choose your own adventure.
Andrew Porter: Yeah, I think particularly that, particularly these days, I think squiggly careers, which I know is a, um, a sort of a trademark or a a, a book title I think is so true. Build builds careers through experience and fun and things that you enjoy. You know, I think the, a linear career is probably not the thing anymore.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah, squiggly careers. Very professional word and makes complete sense to me. Yeah, I I mean, it's true. It's true. Learning, growing, turning left, turning right. It's true. Automated interview or live human.
Andrew Porter: Live human.
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Uh, ooh. This one, reward or recognition?
Andrew Porter: Ooh. Both.
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Andrew Porter: think you can have one without the other. I think it's, it has to be a balance of the two. I think. You know, you've got to have reasonable [00:28:00] reward for what you endeavor to do, and I think it's lovely and you should be, you recognize when you do it well.
Nicole Hammond: Yes, agreed. Good manager or fun job
Andrew Porter: I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with good manager and I, the reason I say that is because I think if you've got a good manager, you will have a fun job.
Nicole Hammond: I like that. Turning one indirectly into the other. I like that. Okay. Uh, four day work week or work remote.
Andrew Porter: Ooh, work remote
Nicole Hammond: Uh, fun ones. Okay. Mountains or ocean.
Andrew Porter: ocean.
Nicole Hammond: Me too. Me too. Aw, water sign. Love it. Love it. Um, all right, last one. Um, beer, wine, or cocktail.
Andrew Porter: Or cocktail easy.
Nicole Hammond: Nice. And do you have a spirit of choice?
Andrew Porter: Ooh. Yeah. Probably fairly agnostic. Any, any, any insider cocktail or a mixture of them all?
Nicole Hammond: Love it. Love it. Oh, Andrew, when we meet someday, we will have one of those cocktails and cheers [00:29:00] because. You have been so delightful. This has been so fun. Um, I won't apologize for going deep. I think today I had an aha moment and I've been doing a few of these now, and I feel like there was a moment for both you and I to self-reflect on something that has taken us down a memory lane that was very nurturing for the soul.
Uh, And so thank you because I, I don't know if I've had that to date yet, and, and it was very powerful and impactful and I really appreciate you sharing with us.
Andrew Porter: Oh, thank you. It's been, uh, a real joy to be with you.
Nicole Hammond: So tell our audience where they can find you.
Andrew Porter: Well, they can find me on LinkedIn. Um, I am there in all my glorious technical detail. Um, or, uh, if people want to reach out, then I'm sure we can find other ways of connecting via email or whatever, but LinkedIn is, is there. Feel free to drop me a message and let me know that you listen to the podcast so that I know that's where the context come from. Um, and I will be happy to [00:30:00] connect with you.
Nicole Hammond: Anyone listening or watching, please take advantage of this. Uh, this is your opportunity to start to build your partnership world if you haven't already. Uh, Andrew can also help you with that, not only with what you've heard today, but also if you're looking for partners in your ecosystem to help with your tech stack.
Uh, we are here for you, so. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for joining us today, and thank you, Andrew for a special, special time. Uh, this is another version of Hiring Happy Hour, and we will see you all again soon.
And that wraps another episode of Hiring Happy Hour. Thanks for tuning in and for believing like we do that hiring isn't just about filling jobs. It's about the impact we make. To catch more stories and show notes, visit hiring happy hour.com. This episode was brought to you by Smartrecruiters, an SAP company, an AI powered platform for superhuman hiring.
Until [00:31:00] next time, stay curious, stay kind, and keep humanizing hiring. Cheers.