HHH - Shiran Y
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Nicole Hammond: All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Hiring Happy Hour. Um, today I have my dancing partner in crime. Uh, she is awesome, and she is someone who is actively reshaping what it means to hire in the age of AI, and she has the founder scars and product chops [00:01:00] to back it up. She is a visionary, a builder, and a founder turned product executive who has never lost her entrepreneurial edge.
True story. She's the kind of product leader who treats the future of hiring less like a destination and more like a design problem she hasn't solved yet, always questioning the assumptions baked into the tools we already have and building something better from the ground up. Before landing at her current role, she co-founded Ksopia, a data-driven platform for team leaders, and grew it all the way to acquisition by HR Unicorn HiBob, where she then stepped into the VP of Product seat.
Today, she is leading, amazingly, the product vision at SmartRecruiters, launching Winston, their new AI hiring agent, SmartOS, and a reimagined recruiting platform along with onboarding. She is the SVP of Product Management here at SmartRecruiters. Please join me in welcoming Shiran Yaroslavsky. Hi, Shiran.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Hi, Nichol. [00:02:00] Thank you for having me
Nicole Hammond: always, always. Um, so we are here, uh, with a special episode of Hiring Happy Hour because we have an anniversary. We are celebrating something, something near and dear to everyone's heart here at Smart Recruiters that bleeds green, and that is our friend Winston. And so while I may usually ask what your hiring happy hour is, I think today we know it's, it's Winston, and the launch and evolution of Winston.
So I wanna jump right in and hear from you and share with our audience, our listeners, and our viewers, Winston, the evolution of Winston
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Well, know, uh, it, it was such an incredible journey. Um, and I think, you know, just to give you a bit behind the scene. So, um, around two years ago, um, we were looking into the market and what's going on, and, um, our Q [00:03:00] and-- you know, back then, the, the roadmap that we had, and we felt like we're making y- we're making progress.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: building AI-based product, but is it enough? Is it bold enough? Are we making enough progress fast enough? Are we really disrupting and getting to the vision that we want to, to deliver to market? And the answer, the honest answer was probably not. We're building a lot with AI, but it's not fast enough.
It's not bold enough. Um, we're not sure that we are really creating the best, you know, new generation kind of hiring platform that we wanna go and, and, and build. And so our, uh, CEO, Rebecca, encouraged us, "Guys, if, if you really need to focus on this one, and this is really important, just pause everything." um, we made the really tough decision to, uh, basically pause on everything that we're building, um, and basically focus on first to understand what Winston would look like and what's the vision and what will move [00:04:00] the needle for our customers. And so for almost a quarter, um, so almost three months, we interviewed dozens of customers to understand what are the biggest pain points that they have. What is the, the biggest needs that they have, and what will move the needle for them? And after talking to, uh, dozens of customers from different regions and industries, and after we understood basically what we're up against, we landed on the big vision of Winston and what we wanna go and build and what will really, you know, get our customers excited. And then we got into the work and, you know, what we, you know, start building, uh, together with our engineering. Um, and, uh, it was very ambitious.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: was very, very ambitious. Uh, people were working a bit, like, crazy. Um, it's, it's a fun but also very challenging time
Nicole Hammond: I remember. I remember.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: People were stressed, uh, I won't lie.
But we made it, and the execution level was very [00:05:00] high. We met the timeline. Uh, we were celebrating. Um, and then part of the decision we made is to build together with customers. So those customers that we interviewed, we picked basically what we call in SmartRecruiters the, the design partners for Winston, and very curated group of customers that help us to shape this, you know, from vision to reality. Um, making sure that what we're building is really customer-centric, is really what will move the needle for our customers, not only what in the product manager's head. Um, and I think that was a crucial, uh, part in our success, be able to work so closely with amazing customers. And SmartRecruiters, we're very fortunate to have amazing customers, amazing brands, uh, that are working with us. Um, and so, uh, be able to launch it together with them and then, know, we had this big celebration, but this is like, you know, it's not the end. It's just the beginning for product teams. [00:06:00] So once you, when you launch it, then you need to get the feedback and understand the data and what's working and what's not, and what still we need to itera-
Nicole Hammond: Yep.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: and improve. Um, so that was also a fun part as well.
Nicole Hammond: I will say, Shiran, that I remember this very vividly as all of us, uh, here were, you know, just looking at you and Rebecca saying, "Wait, what are we doing? Oh, okay. Well, we... Yes, we needed to improve, but we just, you know, took a right turn and decided to plan a whole different trip." And so, but we were on board, and I think it takes a lot to believe in your leadership and know that you have the right people in place and that you can do this in the time allotted.
And then here we look back, you know, with the launch and then year, two years later at the impact, which we'll get to in just a second. But we did it, right? We did it, and Winston brings a smile to everyone's face. I think in the market he is a lovable [00:07:00] character person that truly is a sidekick and achieves so much for so many different types of users.
Uh, and it's great to look back, but you bring up a great point about continuous improvement, and we said this in the opening that describes you. Um, and I think, you know, this resonates with me. Nothing's ever good enough. You can always elevate, improve, and I think we see a lot of things on the market where there's a launch and then it's left to die, right?
And so it's great to see the continuous chapters of Winston as he builds and flexes his muscles and takes on more. Um, but share with us the impact, right? This is something that wasn't just a vision. It is a reality, um, a credible reality, right? Meeting dates on time in the product world is also something that is very, very hard to achieve.
But tell us more about how he has impacted our customers, their feedback, and what this looks like.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Yeah. And I think I would, I would make a point here, um, I [00:08:00] would make a point that, you know, we-- the biggest-- one of the biggest concern, to be honest, that we had back then is that we decided to pause on our roadmap,
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: um, for, for a quarter. And I think if you remember, like also our, our customer success team was stressed out, like how customers will react to it, right? And it took a lot. We actually were very transparent with our
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: and I give them the full credit of basically, you know, they, they got it. They're like: "Okay, we trust
Nicole Hammond: Trust, yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: you're gonna deliver something much better for us, and maybe it will take you more time to maybe some features
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Nuances that you promised
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: you know, we trust you that you're making the right decision."
And
Nicole Hammond: Trust.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: takes a
Nicole Hammond: It does
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Um, so I do want them to, to give our amazing customers this, you know, really like this credit. Um, and it is a partnership. Uh, we see our customers more of a partners than just, you know, [00:09:00] um, kind of a very, uh, transactional kind of relationship. And so I would say, um, when we started to measure the impact of customer-- of, of Winston on-- with our customers, um, we see, um, different aspects here that I would call out. One, um, it took us some time, but what we see is that, uh, once we nail down the experience, once a customer is enabling Winston, we see them rolling Winston to more than fifty percent of their job. I
Nicole Hammond: Wow.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: right now it's around fifty-six. So we see it gradually. They, they start small, and then they see the impact, and it-- they're just rolling it and rolling it more and more and more. So when-- once you're hooked with Winston, you're probably gonna use it for the majority of your, uh, positions, which is, which is great. It's a great testimony also for us and the value that Winston is providing. I would say in a nutshell, you'll ask me probably your next question, Nicole, like [00:10:00] then how many customers are using your AI products, right?
Nicole Hammond: You know me, Charan. You know me.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: so the, the, the quick answer there is that, uh, for our AI-enabled products, um, and Winston products if we're looking into our customer base, it's around sixty-seven percent of our customers are using them, which is very, very
high
Nicole Hammond: think about the world of A ri- AI right now, right? You have customers that are, you know, risk-averse. You have customers that are diving right in. But what this tells a story too is that we have consistency, right? There is a group out there that has dipped their toes in and then continues to use and use and use.
And it's not a small population, it's more than half of our population. And so that is huge to the point you said of trust, transparency, capability, and adoption, right? Um, I'm gonna throw a stat back to you, which is one of my favorites to share because it's, it's important to the customers, but it's about the [00:11:00] candidate.
And it makes me feel validated, like I love Winston Chat, but don't believe me, believe the candidates with a 4.81 out of 5 on the usage. And I go back to the direct value that provides in engagement, less drop-off, uh, quality of hire, um, sharing about your, you know, conversational culture and about your role specifically, and just continuous engagement throughout the hiring process.
Like that is huge. Um, and as we think about more and more agents out there, it doesn't matter if people don't use them
Shiran Yaroslavsky: I agree. And especially, you know, we were pretty early in the journey of Winston. We, we-- when we launched Winston, we were ahead of everyone. But today, to be honest, everyone are building agents, so it's, uh, not, not, you know, unusual anymore.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Um, but the big question is you're, you're, uh, just phrasing, like, are they using it?
Is it really providing the value and the impact that the customers are looking for? [00:12:00] And based on research, the answer for most of product is unfortunately no. Um, so to be able to see that and this type of testimonial and impact metric for our customers, this is really, uh, means a lot.
Nicole Hammond: And I appreciate that. I think our customers and all the sign group that you mentioned who absolutely have just loved this partnership, um, appreciate that. So as we know, nothing's ever good enough. We always want to improve it. Um, and we are now not ahead, and I know you're a competitor, as am I, and as a lot of people in this company.
How do we get ahead again? How do we look future forward? Um, where are we going?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Yeah, and it's a g-great question. So first, I would say we are keep doubling down on, um, the impact of Winston. So for example, uh, Winston is helping customers, I would say, I will put it into three buckets usually.
Nicole Hammond: Okay
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Um, one is saving time.
Nicole Hammond: Mm-hmm
Shiran Yaroslavsky: [00:13:00] Um, and so how we're using AI to automate more and more of the, like, day-to-day work. Um, and we're keep, increasing the bar, pushing the bar higher there. Um, and then the f- the second one is more, um, like, uh, shorten time to hire. And for example, Winston Match is, you know, shortening the time for moving candidate to the next stage by today is a bit more than, uh, twenty-five percent at least.
Some customers you, you see more and
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: but on average. So there is, um, you, you can, you, you see more and more screening product that the Winston that we are launching, that this timeline is getting shorter and shorter. Um, so this is, for example, uh, the second bucket. And the third, and you mentioned it well, um, is the candidate experience and how we are really, like shaping a new experience for candidates. And, and candidate, the way they're also discovering job is really changing these days. So how we are, um, [00:14:00] aligning to that, how we are creating a delightful experience for them. So those are the main three buckets. Now, I would say as we're looking ahead and we're adding more capabilities, you know, we have...
We're working on agentic CRM, we're working on, you know, more and more Winston product to help us to push the, the needle on those, you know, in those three buckets. Um, but we're also looking at it from a broader perspective. We're
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: part of the family. Um, so how we are tapping into this vision of autonomous workforce, and I think the true, would say, impact, potential impact that can really transform workforce will be if we execute Winston together with other agent across the suite.
And I think this is the big impact for customers. So if you a suite customer and you have all those agents within one system based on one, um, basically data layer, um, then how you helping them [00:15:00] to execute end-to-end for you? How are you making sure that they're getting the right data to iterate, to change based on what your business really needs?
How you tracking the ROI of, you know, those agents because you know it's not, not
cheap, unfortunately. Um, so I think being able to tap into that and really execute autonomous kind of, uh, uh, agentic kind of vision of Winston collaborating also with other agents because customers have multiple agents also in their environment, um, will really move the needle
Nicole Hammond: I think this is super powerful as we think future forward, we think everyone consolidating tech, we think about p- how important trust, transparency, but also one source of truth with that data is. And it is very, um, exciting to be able to validate that, share that story, go along on that journey with a number of our customers, right?
We're hearing, "Okay, we wanna learn how to have AI [00:16:00] and people work in the same, you know, ecosystem." And then to your point, agent to agent, whether it be across a suite where it's the same data platform, or also connected externally. And I am very proud, and you should be, too, of the way we do things, right? I think there's probably a lot of lessons learned.
I think there's a lot that we, um, have done the right way versus the fast way. Um, share with our audience more about those lessons learned and maybe what they should look out for when it comes to, you know, choosing AI and specific elements of their tech stack
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Yeah. So I think first is to understand, where your data is, right? what is the cost if you're, uh, uh, pushing your data into different tools and different product, what will be the, you know, the cost of it later? Because in a world where [00:17:00] agents should collaborate better
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: they should get this context layer, um, from everything you do, it's, it's really important to think where are your agents and where the data lives, right?
So first to map those and understand from your ecosystem, your tech stack, how does it build in a way that really will serve you in your transformation vision. So, um, I think this is what-- fi-first, first advice from me. And then second is to understand as a business, what are the big problems you are trying to solve? What are the metrics you are trying to move? And then based on that, to evaluate your right vendor. And I would question them. I will ask them, you know, what, you know, how you are helping businesses like mine to push on this, this Yeah and what kind of ROI you're demonstrating. Um, because I do think it's important, but first, you know, you need to have this clarity as a business, what you are trying to achieve.
What is the goals that you have when you're stepping into this [00:18:00] transformation or innovation, uh, kind of, uh, journey.
Nicole Hammond: Yeah. No, I think that's helpful, and I hope listeners out there, um, take that because I think we're all evaluating I- AI across our business. One, consolidation. We've talked about this in the past, right? Having one area where you manage all your AI and the interdependencies, and then two, to your point, like what are the problems you're solving?
What are the business objectives, whether it be company-wide, department-wide, and then asking those vendors how they can help you solve those problems. And the proof points, right? The proof points. Not making sure that people are using their AI, uh, and the data is not based on one customer. Um, so ask a lot of questions.
Be curious. All right, last area I wanna go, and I think it's the most important, the people. How do you bring along a product organization on this journey, right? I mean, you, you hear from leadership about, "Wow, we're, we are crazy," but, "Okay, here we go. We trust you. We're gonna do it." And we did it. Um, but even more so the, the doers behind the scenes, [00:19:00] right?
How do you bring them along on this journey? And, and if some product leaders are listening, what's your advice to them?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Yeah, I f- I, I, it's a good question because also product managers, to be honest, they, they, they, they have emotional attachment
Nicole Hammond: I'm sure
Shiran Yaroslavsky: product, to their roadmap. They nurture it for so
Nicole Hammond: Yeah.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: you're telling us to throw it away, and it's painful. It's painful. It's just a painful
process.
Nicole Hammond: won't call it their baby, but maybe it's their, you know, blankie?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Exactly. So, so it's close to that. So people get really attached. Um, and so I think it's, it's a challenging process. Um, but I think if you're leading as a leader is with context and why we're doing what we're doing, and getting them excited about the vision and the, the journey ahead, um, they would be on board.
But you need to really invest in providing the right context and the why behind it. Um, and they got it. I have an amazing team. Um,
Nicole Hammond: [00:20:00] you do
Shiran Yaroslavsky: got it. They're like, "Yes, we are on board." And they were part of it. They were the one that, "Okay, now and talk to customers. Go and figure it out. Go and, you know, let's, let's hear it.
Let's-- We're here together in this journey." Um, so I think, you know, making them also true partners, not something that is coming also from top-down,
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: you know, helping, you know, getting them excited about be able to shape this kind of vision
Nicole Hammond: Yeah
Shiran Yaroslavsky: that's also a big piece of it
Nicole Hammond: I love it, and I can attest to that. They are just as proud of this baby or chapter that continues to grow, so . Well, this has been very insightful, and I love hearing from you, Shiran, because I think you are a very wise, hardworking woman that has done amazing things, um, here at Smart Recruiters, and I know these next chapters within SAP are gonna be even more exciting, and you're gonna lead the way.
Um, and I'm here for it. I'm here for it. Um, let's flip to personal happy [00:21:00] hour. So let, let's talk about you. Who is Shiran? Um, what brings you bliss? What makes you smile outside of work?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Wow. Um, first, and you know that, uh, Nichol, but, uh, um, I'm, I'm expecting a, a newborn, so, um, I, I'm going on maternity leave next week. So you just caught me, you know, on the way out a bit. I'm very excited about that. I have, uh, one amazing kid called Ari. He's two and a half years old, and now I, I'm gonna have, um, um, a, a baby girl, which is very exciting. Um, so, um, that is one thing that I'm very excited about these days. and then beside that, uh, you know, on my, you know, uh, you know, on, on my, uh, kind of day-to-day, uh, I really love and enjoy running, long distance running, uh, when, when I have the time for it as well.
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Uh, your family is very [00:22:00] beautiful, and I am very excited for Ari to have a baby sister. This is gonna be just such a wonderful, wonderful time for your family. And I also look forward to my voice notes from you after your runs or before your runs . So, so thank you for those. Um, anytime you need to leave one, I'm, I'm here for it with beautiful ideas and also just explanations.
You've been a great partner, um, to us, so thank you. Uh, all right, my favorite part, um, this or that. So I am going to give you two options, and it's all related to topics that we've talked about, and then we go into some fun stuff. You can choose one, you can choose both, you can elaborate, you can mic drop.
It is, is truly your own adventure. Um, but I'll, I'll, I'll start here. Okay. Uh, and some of these might be hard for you to choose, so y- you don't have to. Uh, AI that helps you or AI that completes the work
Shiran Yaroslavsky: wow, it's a good question.
Nicole Hammond: came out hot,
Shiran Yaroslavsky: helps
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Um, better prompts or better [00:23:00] business outcomes?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: better business outcomes
Nicole Hammond: Workforce equals people or workforce equals people plus agents
Shiran Yaroslavsky: People plus agents
Nicole Hammond: Faster decisions or better decisions?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Both.
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Build for today or build for what's next?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Build for what's next.
Nicole Hammond: I, that was the only one that I knew what you were gonna say. New innovation or platform scale
Shiran Yaroslavsky: You can't do proper innovation without platform scale. So I'll go with platform scale, and you need the right foundation to
Nicole Hammond: So this, then that. , three big bets or 30 small wins?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Uh, free big bets
Nicole Hammond: Yes. Chat interface or embedded intelligence
Shiran Yaroslavsky: embedded intelligence
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Trust or speed
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Trust. Trust is the foundation
Nicole Hammond: Okay.
Shiran Yaroslavsky: I, as I see it.
Nicole Hammond: Okay
Shiran Yaroslavsky: You start from trust. You can't do anything Okay. Those were the hard ones. That was [00:24:00] it. Now we get to enjoy the fun stuff, right? Okay. Um, mountains or ocean?
Mountains
Nicole Hammond: Vacation or staycation?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Vacation
Nicole Hammond: Coffee or tea?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Coffee, definitely
Nicole Hammond: Dancing or going to a concert?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Ooh, this is hard. Uh, dancing for me
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Um, sunrise or sunset?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: sunset
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Trail run or city run?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Savioron
Nicole Hammond: Okay. Early morning or late evening?
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Definitely early mornings.
Nicole Hammond: Okay. We did it, Shiran. Um, everyone, you can learn more, um, and connect with Shiran on LinkedIn or here at Smart Recruiters or SAP. Um, Shiran, thank you for being here, and thank you for being here right before you are going out on maternity leave. I truly appreciate you taking the time and sharing your beautiful insight.
Um, we haven't had a product point of view yet, [00:25:00] and so I think it's been really insightful for our listeners, but also hopefully expands to some new listeners that truly, um, validate what they're thinking, what they're doing, going on a run to do it before they turn and plan a whole new trip, AKA Winston.
Um, but thank you so much. Uh, I really appreciate you and, uh, being able to work with you. Uh, all right, listeners, this has been another episode of Hiring Happy Hour. We hope you learned something and took something from this impactful time, and, uh, keep listening
Shiran Yaroslavsky: Thank you, Nichol
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