HHH - Alastair Schirmer
===
[00:00:00]
Nicole Hammond: hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us on another episode of Hiring Happy Hour. Today is an exciting one, and yes, I may say that every week, but I truly, truly mean it. Um, we just had a great conversation about spirits, so you'll have to wait till the end to see which is his favorite. Um, joking [00:01:00] aside, though, I think this is an important conversation that a lot of you will be able to relate to, whether you are in charge of a piece of technology, technology strategy, or even thinking about the future of AI and how we bring that into your tech stack and design.
So he is a true pioneer in HR technology, someone who has spent over 25 years at the forefront of talent tech, innovation, and has held senior general manager and director roles across some of the most recognized organizations in the industry. He is a globally recognized thought leader who has led digital transformation and AI strategy at scale, working directly with some of the world's largest employers to help them build smarter, more efficient talent ecosystems. He has a rare ability to bridge the worlds of commercial strategy, product innovation, and people technology, having driven partnerships, solutions, and cutting-edge HR tech programs across Australia, North America, and Europe. Today, [00:02:00] he serves as Global Head of Digital Innovation at Randstad Enterprise, where he leads AI and technology strategy across their entire suite of global outsourced talent services. Please join me in welcoming Alistair Sharma. Welcome, Alistair.
Alastair Schirmer: Thank you so much for having me, Nicole. And, uh, please call me Al. And that's an impressive introduction.
Nicole Hammond: I'm excited to jump right in because I think there is a lot of value you can provide to our audience, and we spoke recently about this topic. So I want to just open it up by sharing with our audience, our listeners, our viewers, what your hiring happy hour is. And as we describe that, about a moment in time or something that you've been a part of that you were very, very proud of. And we want to make this about you, right? We don't take enough time to recognize ourselves, um, and just all the impact that we have on organizations and customers today. So please share with us, Al, what your hiring happy hour may be
Alastair Schirmer: it's interesting when, when I [00:03:00] reflect on my career, honestly, the, the word that keeps coming to mind for me is the word of impact. Like impact is my center. Um, and that's how I try to design what I do, where I play a role.
If I don't feel like I'm having an impact, I'm actually really not interested, um, in a- in being involved. Um, now the result of that is I tend to get-- I have lots of impacts in lots of areas, hopefully all positive. But, uh, and I find myself stretching myself very thinly as a result of that. But, but if I reflect on the things that I find most impactful, it's really where I'm interacting with customers.
Um, and the things that I-- if I reflect on recent work, um, that I've done over the last 12 months, uh, or not, not even 12 months, last six months since being here in the Netherlands, um, has actually been sitting with a customer. And there was one particular comment made by a customer recently where we presented back on their findings from a technology strategy perspective around their entire talent acquisition suite, and [00:04:00] actually extended further outside of that.
And we presented back around the horizon or views around how they could redesign that thoughtfully. And they said, "Oh my God, we've had one of the large consulting firms in-house with us now for the last two years. I took more away from that one-hour session than I have from them in two years." Um, and I said, "Well, that's nice.
I haven't even charged you for it." So, um, but, but the-- but, but That's that's
Nicole Hammond: That's
Alastair Schirmer: a nice reflection of impact. So, so that was, that was uplifting
Nicole Hammond: Wow, that is amazing. And I can resonate with you. I tell people that impact is also something near and dear to my heart, and I'm a problem solver, and so I think those two go hand in hand. Um, it's interesting to hear that because I think it is at the core of our world today as innovation and technology is moving so quickly. We need to make sure that that impact is meaningful and purposeful. Um, and to your point, kind of just collaborative and cohesive as we think, think across these global [00:05:00] large organizations. Um, we talked a little bit about technology stack design decision thinking, and I think there is a lot of impact that you have brought to your customers in this world. But I would love for you to share a little bit more about what that is with our listeners
Alastair Schirmer: maybe if I could boil it down. Uh, so when I think about technology stack design, um, so there's the architectural IT element of it, which is super important, but let's park that to the side a little bit for the moment just in the context of your audience. When I think about in the context of your audience, it's probably really thinking about, um, a couple of key components and, and largely it's simplified into three.
Nicole Hammond: Okay
Alastair Schirmer: So I would look at that in the context of, um, purpose. Um, and purpose should start with like who does what work where and why. And, and so it's a very simple equation around it's not just what I spend my time logged into at an interface level, it's actually, you know, the purpose behind [00:06:00] why I'm using this thing to do a s- do a thing.
So that's the first pillar. The second pillar should be experience. Um, okay, well, what is it actually doing to have some level of impact on a particular group of people? And those in our world, it's largely talent, um, whether that be candidates externally or internal employees. It's the function, the, the HR function, the recruitment function, and then importantly it's the, it's the managers.
These are people who are hiring into that community. So the experience of those are really important. And then the third pillar is actually about, well, the, largely it's connecting about the IT community. It's about data connectivity and increasingly the role of AI and agents. And so-- and This is where the interoperability elements of these, these come into play, right?
So if you look at those three pillars, then that starts to direct you towards better decision-making, um, around your technology stack. And, and I, and I'll make maybe the final [00:07:00] comment there. The principles in which you make decisions upon are also really, really important. So when you're making decisions associated to technology, uh, regardless of whether that be AI or systems or, or data platforms, um, the principles in which you're making decisions around also become increasingly important, and that's not just InfoSec.
That's actually just the principles around those three pillars that I just spoke about
Nicole Hammond: This is great. And as you're saying these and expanding on them, I'm doing like a checklist of, of how, uh, Smartrecruiters or SAP SuccessFactors may go to market. And when I look at
purpose, I think about outcomes, right? The first question I ask any opportunity is, what are we solving for? Um, and so I think your purpose-driven w- driven component really gets to that, right?
Like, let's focus on the problems that we are looking to solve or the overarching strategic goals this organization has as it relates to HR and TA. Um, experience, this has always been at the core, right? As we think about [00:08:00] candidate experience, hiring manager engagement, recruit- recruiter productivity. So I think no matter what happens in the world, those will never go away as our core fundamentals. Um, and I'm really happy to hear data connectivity because I think that a lot of customers, and you tell me, forget to measure success or think about like numbers that they should come back to as they think about this experience, this, this transformation, and bringing AI into that realm is, is huge. And the word interoperability, I don't think I could say three times fast.
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah I struggled to say it one time, let alone three times fast, so. But yeah but you're absolutely right. And actually, if I could pick up on a point you just made there, Nicole, as well, is that, uh, internally in Randstad at least, and I-- the same back when I was working in consulting, we'd talk a lot about this digital equation for success, which is this part that technology is really only a small part of the total success equation.
And so, you know, you, you made the right comment, which is start with the problem. Like, you should, uh, if I [00:09:00] could quote Josh Bersin, which is like, "Fall in love with the problem," right? Be obsessed with the problem, because that should really deci-- uh, guide you around whatever decision you're going to make should be guided towards it genuinely having an impact on the problem you're trying to solve.
Um, so... And it's, and it's, it's interesting, we've been playing around internally, um, around a reimagined version of this digital equation of success in the context of AI, which is a different challenge again. Um, but-- And it's still at the heart of it. There is still the, you know, there is the mindset, the people, and the process parts that are the larger dimensions that are multiplier factor that actually are going to have the greatest level of impact
Nicole Hammond: Yes. And I, I'm with you on almost those problem statements being part of your design principles, right? You really have to think about is candidate engagement your number one priority? That should be part of your design principle as you think about this future forward, and to your point, kind of taking [00:10:00] the tech out of it, but looking at future state and what that looks like, and then building the tech into what that looks like. Um, so flexibility definitely needs to be a part of it. curious because I know recently, um, Randstad and SmartRecruiters have, you know, formally made a, a partnership. Um, and I wanna hear more as we talk about these three things, but what was part of the decision-making process there? Did you put this into practice, right?
We talk about impact. alone will replace consulting firms all over the world. No, I'm just kidding. But it is very impactful baseline that we should all take into consideration and maybe validate what we're thinking doing. But you've gone through this process now yourself, and so how was that, and, and what was core to that impact?
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah. So, I mean, if you look at the talent acquisition function Of uh, all organizations, there's a few things that are-- they're largely being driven towards, right? Which is [00:11:00] productivity. Like it's like the number one piece-- the number one word used almost every single TA manager at the moment, largely being driven from C-level down, right?
Productivity, productivity, productivity. And the other part to that is do more with less. You know, so we're not gonna give you any more people. We want you to be more productive. Oh, Yes I know that you've got now two hundred and fifty percent more applicants than you had, you know, twelve months ago, or maybe it's a thousand percent more applicants.
But this element of you're not gonna get any more people, guys, work it out. Those things became really important, um, realities that our teams were going through and, and there's a few other realities that became important for us and, you know, we've seen it across the board as well. Um, increasingly, the things that we were looking for is we wanted something that allowed for the ability for us to deploy, um, at speed, uh, a really, um, forward-thinking, best practice approach to how we deliver our services to market.
So, so that was a really important [00:12:00] consideration. So there's a velocity consideration as part of that. Experience became an important part to it as well. like how do we ensure that whatever we take our people off and move them to can feel as seamless and as intuitive as possible, so we don't have a heavy burden on the change equation?
Um, because we know that that was always gonna be a challenge. You know, k- educating somebody on something new is really, really hard. Um, getting them to change it is even harder. So if we can, can move some of that inertia through something that feels intuitive, then that will actually, you know, give us the right steps towards, um, towards that path.
And then, um, you know, c- some of the other things for us that were important as part of that was, um, being very AI-led in terms of the opportunities and offerings that we could bring to the market, whilst at the same time having modular flexibility that if we did need to activate things, switch things off, subject to a client's level of, um, you know, comfort, [00:13:00] security concern, whatever it may be, um, we wanted to be able to respond to the customer's needs at the same time with flexibility in the system.
So flexibility became a really, really important part, and that's where, you know, if you come back to the principles part, right? So you could say you want a system that's highly configurable. Well, actually, I'd rephrase it to say you need a system that's agile and flexible,
Nicole Hammond: I And it can adjust, adjust and adapt as the market adjusts and adapts.
Alastair Schirmer: So that's kind of the difference between a, a, a need versus a principle, um, in that context.
Nicole Hammond: that. I like that. So speed and experience and AI-led, I think these are important components. And in the world today, I think as we talk about AI, there's risk-averse, there's people that are just all for it. But something that I'm running into, and I'm, I'm hoping you can make an impact and solve on this one, and it's a total curveball
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah.
Nicole Hammond: Talk about it, but I think you
Alastair Schirmer: actually
Nicole Hammond: have the secret sauce.
So are running into a lot of organizations that are used [00:14:00] to quarterly, if not half a year releases, meaning that change, that impact of new UI or enhancements to their technology that impacts their process, that impacts their people, is, is timed, is prepped, et cetera. Now you move to a world of agents.
You move to a world where you said speed to deploy, and I don't even take that as speed to deploy about the initial implementation, but continuous enhancement innovation. What can we do to support our customers in this change? Um, this is a behavioral change, this is a mindset change, and the reality, and I'm totally harsh, is it's not going away. Um,
Alastair Schirmer: Hmm.
Nicole Hammond: So how do we help them get on board?
Alastair Schirmer: Great question. Um, so I would recommend, um, some level of democratized guardrails, um, or what we may refer to as freedom within a frame, right? So if you look at [00:15:00] traditional technology deployments or enhancements to your point, like quarterly releases, half-yearly releases, et cetera, they're all big dumps, um, which can be overwhelming.
Um, so I think if you've got people actively working in your system, giving them more agency by which to actually take on the things that are going to have impact and drive efficiency within their daily practices, then giving them the freedom within the right guardrails to allow them to do that is how you can actually start to get that flowing through.
The challenge with that approach, though, is that it may not be the same fit for everybody. And this is the other part about these big release cycles with traditional SaaS, is that, um, it can feel like a very large change program, and people suck with change. Like, we genuinely suck at it. We're not, we're not, it's not, it's not comfortable.
And so if it's more about there's ongoing continuous improvement approaches, it [00:16:00] feels more natural in terms of how you adopt those, as long as you feel as though you have agency by which to do so. And I think what we tend to find in most, um, functioning departments is that they're given a process and been told, "This is what you have to do, black and white.
Do not go out of the black and white. There is no gray." Now, that might be good for the purpose of governance and reporting and those sorts of things, but it's also the stifling capability of innovation. Like, it doesn't allow you to improve or innovate.
Nicole Hammond: Yep.
Alastair Schirmer: So I would say, like, finding the, the, the space within the frame there for innovation is how you can drive that change approach, and I think that would actually allow you to, to evolve
Nicole Hammond: love this. I love this. I'm gonna add my change management hat on here and say also just like the deployment communication awareness, et cetera, right? Um, not all of us use the same mechanism to absorb. Um, and just like my children, tell them once, tell them twice, tell them three times, right? You just gotta repeat yourself in [00:17:00] different fashions that meet the user where they are.
And so I think to your point, smaller, um, more impactful releases or enhancements. Also too, as we think about the world of agents, it might be just way that the, you know, agent is learning or a new feature within the agent, right? So technically, it's not as crazy of a change, but to your
point, having the flexibility to turn this on/off, um, provide those guardrails so that our customers are adopting and coming along on this journey.
Alastair Schirmer: know, you know, the, uh, the interesting opportunity, and I think I've yet to see it playing out, but I s- I can see it playing out, is that... And coming back to that point you were just making about agents and, and look- let's look at the, the AI interaction on the front end, the generative AI side, is that if you're communicating currently with AI, you're asking it things, right?
You're inputting the parts. But increasingly, we're gonna see it reverse the other direction, which is it's [00:18:00] suggesting or it's actually commenting. And so there's a really nice surprise moment, I think, which is that, um, you know, it asked you... You asked it something and it says, "Hey, um, Nicole, have you also thought about this?"
And you go, "Well, no, I haven't thought about that. That's really interesting. Why are you asking me about that?" "Well, I've just had a... I've just updated my systems and I can now access this. Would you like me to do that for you as well?" "Oh my God, I didn't know you could do that. Oh Yeah. awesome. Do that for me."
So they're a little surprised. I think there'll be, you know, interesting surprise moments that will naturally get un- you know, surfaced as you explore that. Now the, the part of where that gets really interesting is that curiosity kicks in more and you start to have more conversation. "Well, could you also do this for me?"
And it says, "Well, I can't do that for you yet. Would that be interesting for you?" And then it... Then that flows through to the product team as product suggestion,
Nicole Hammond: Yes.
Alastair Schirmer: And that goes into, into roadmap prioritization. Like, those things would be quite cool, and then it becomes... That's why I use that word democratized.
Like we could... Or even it could just [00:19:00] be, um, you know, more citizen-led or more community-based. Like those things I think will drive the innovation at a, at a, at a, at a way which feels more tangible and more controlled, uh, in a lot of respects
Nicole Hammond: It's crazy. I had a conversation recently with a customer, and they're like, "Well, what about predictive analytics?" And the way that you're describing agents, it's almost like, again, back to our data coming across all systems and working together, is proactively then within the agents, right? Um, "Hey, I s- note that you have, you know, a bottleneck top of funnel," right?
Like, you used to have to run a report and make that part of your weekly thing of where are my bottlenecks, but now something can come to you and proactively provide you. Uh, I'm curious though, Al, how do you feel about now where agents are n- not necessarily just an assistant, but now they're taking some of those actions for you? How do we, as we look to our customers, as we look to our, you know, individuals that implement, how do we manage those conversations of [00:20:00] what, you know, what is best right now?
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah. So I used the word thoughtful before,
Nicole Hammond: Mm-hmm.
Alastair Schirmer: And I want to come back to that in this context. So first things first, I mean, look, agent, agent, agent, agent, agent, agent, agent. Everyone's talking agent, right? It's the number one word that everyone's using. But I can tell you right now, speaking to every customer, none of them know what the bloody hell it is.
Um, so that's probably the, the first thing I would say. And I think there is a temptation, and I've heard, um, from a, a customer who was the... This was actually the, the CH-- new CHRO came in and the, um, chairman of the board of this business had, um, spoken to the new CHRO, very large organization, and said, "Well, we don't need your department anymore.
Like, well done. Congratulations getting the job. But, um, we're just g- we're just gonna deploy a whole bunch of agents to do all this work. Like, we-- why do... We don't need your department anymore." And so, you know, there have been plenty of examples where businesses have [00:21:00] gone in blindly applying AI and applying agents and looking at it as a, as a cost reduction exercise as opposed to a value creation exercise.
Nicole Hammond: point
Alastair Schirmer: so, so I think that's, that's probably the, the first thing I would comment on. So come back to your question, thoughtful design actually makes a lot of sense. So where and why would we want an agent to undertake a particular, um, action, uh, and complete a particular task? We had an RFP we were responding to recently.
Client had broken down their entire process and said, "Right, we want agents in every single step of the entire process doing every single component." Okay, interesting. So, um, we could have... The, the ask was yes or no, do we have an agent doing it? And I actually went back to them with a different response, which was essentially, you know, um, it was essentially, uh, what were the...
What were I'm gonna break down. I think it was agentic autonomous, um, and but, but human in the loop. There was agent-led, [00:22:00] um, but human informed. There was, um, a human-led but AI supported.
Nicole Hammond: Trust
Alastair Schirmer: and then there was actually human-owned, um, completely. And there was an example in their list, which was negotiation. Um, and so, uh, I went, "Okay."
And they said, "Well, why, why can't you have an agent do negotiation?" I said, "Do you want an agent doing negotiation? Do you really... Like, do you really want an agent doing the negotiation f- on your behalf for a two point five million dollar contract value? I don't think you do. You probably want a human to operate that, but actually supported through some level of intelligence, which is where the AI support comes in the role."
So you find out do you not want an agent doing... Now, could you in the future? Maybe. But do you really want to? And I think this is the part that we just gotta be really thoughtful around the where we apply these things in the process. Now, the argument is, Oh, it's gonna free us up to be more human." And, uh, maybe if I [00:23:00] can be cheeky When the bloody hell did we start using the word human as opposed to people?
Like, c- come on. I... So there's, so there's, there's this little part of me going, I cringe every time I hear it because we just, we never used that word before, and now we're using it all the time, right? But, but there is this, this thoughtful part about us as people playing a role within a process, and it should be about the things that are focused on building relationships.
It should be on the critical decision points. It should be on creativity. It should be on innovation. It should be on growth. You don't wanna give that to an AI or an agent. And so I think you wanna protect that as much as humanly possible, and then focus on the repetitive things that logically make sense to agentify, um, or automate, to be fair.
It
Nicole Hammond: Yeah. Very true.
Alastair Schirmer: it. So it. So
Nicole Hammond: I appreciate this, and it is very thoughtful. And a- as you're kind of sharing this, there's probably situations [00:24:00] throughout that process where you need something different, right? And so going back to kind of categorically looking at that, and yes, I will make... say the word that might make you cringe, but not
Alastair Schirmer: Oh, nice.
Nicole Hammond: The human component.
And yes, we, we use that word
Alastair Schirmer: Agreed
Nicole Hammond: ever now, which, not forgetting your people. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. All right. We are, um, going to pivot to learn more about you, Al. I mean, um, from Australia, now living, uh, in Europe, and about what your happy hour is outside of work. So can you short- share more about you and, and what brings you excitement and enjoyment, um, outside of being impactful in the world?
Alastair Schirmer: I'm a real family man, um, three kids, um, yeah, wife. We've all moved over here, so it's been a big, big move for us to move from Melbourne to, to the Netherlands. So I think for me it's about, it's now that beautiful moment of being able to spend more time, and actually as a result of that, travel.
So for my happy moments, for me, I Love to [00:25:00] explore. Um, I love to explore nature, I love to explore history. So those areas I think have been fabulous for me from an access perspective now, which is great. I'm an avid, avid sports lover. Um, I, I would say I'm much more of an avid sports lover and watcher than I am a player, if that makes sense.
Like
Nicole Hammond: does
Alastair Schirmer: I, I, I used to... Yeah yeah. I mean, I, I would not say I'm an actively brilliant footballer or tennis player, but geez, I love watching It So, um, so yeah, lots of late nights watching the World Cup at the moment.
Nicole Hammond: And Wimbledon, right? You travel. Well, yeah, correct. Correct. And Wimbledon. That's exactly right. Um, and I, look, I'm a big, uh, like I'm a lover of, of really nice, um...
Alastair Schirmer: I'm a lover of nice restaurants, food, and, and actually quite a big fan of craft beer,
Nicole Hammond: Okay
Alastair Schirmer: as well. I, I like all wines and all those things, right? But, but a, but a nice local craft beer, it's typically the thing I-- Any place I go to, I'll always try a nice local craft beer just to, you know, savor the taste of the, of whatever the new city is.
Nicole Hammond: So a happy hour in the [00:26:00] Netherlands would be a craft beer and what kind of restaurant?
Alastair Schirmer: Well, at the moment, given the summer, it's probably something sitting out bes- near one of the canals, um, here in, in Utrecht, which is where I live. But, uh, yeah, I, I think just a nice, a nice craft beer, you know, maybe some cheese, uh, maybe a little drizzle of honey or something like that.
Nicole Hammond: At
Alastair Schirmer: But, um, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that, that's my happy place
Nicole Hammond: getting hungry and thirsty all in the same moment. I know I am, but that sounds
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah. My
Nicole Hammond: absolutely
Alastair Schirmer: apologies.
Nicole Hammond: Absolutely lovely. Okay, um, we are going to switch to our final piece, which is my favorite, uh, a game of this or that. So I will give you two options. You can choose one, you can choose neither, you could choose both. Um, you can elaborate, you don't have to. I have about to 12 here, if I'm counting my bullets right. Um, some are professional, and then we'll switch to a little bit more fun. Does that sound great?
Alastair Schirmer: great. Let's do it
Nicole Hammond: one, resume or LinkedIn profile?
Alastair Schirmer: [00:27:00] LinkedIn profile
Nicole Hammond: Second, um, AI first recruiting or recruiter first recruiting
Alastair Schirmer: I think it's a both in, in that scenario, depending on the scenario, if
Nicole Hammond: answer. Future-proofing or solving today's needs?
Alastair Schirmer: Ooh. Um, I think it. has to be about future-proofing. Yeah. Once again, flavor a bit of both, but I think I'm gonna be biased on an innovation level that we should be trying to future-proof
Nicole Hammond: Um, okay. Human intuition or AI recommendations?
Alastair Schirmer: so my professional in me wants to say AI rec- AI recommendations, but I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna over-index on human intuition
Nicole Hammond: All right
Alastair Schirmer: just based on what I've seen. I mean, use it as a tool, but trust your gut at
Nicole Hammond: All
Alastair Schirmer: the same time,
Nicole Hammond: Love it.
Alastair Schirmer: As long as you know something about the topic. So yeah
Nicole Hammond: it. I love it. Okay. Um, global consistency or local flexibility
Alastair Schirmer: So, uh, I'm, I'm gonna go with a bit of both.
Nicole Hammond: I love it. [00:28:00] Yeah, I would probably choose the same, so you're not the only one. All right. Um, measure adoption or measure business outcomes?
Alastair Schirmer: Of the final business outcomes,
Nicole Hammond: project RPO or enterprise RPO
Alastair Schirmer: Ooh, gosh. 'Cause we're doing... I'm gonna say both 'cause we're doing both. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. I think enterprise is gonna have a bigger impact, but project RPO is also really useful and important
Nicole Hammond: Now thinking about a candidate. Candidate potential over or candidate pedigree
Alastair Schirmer: gosh, that's a great question. Um, potential over pedigree. I'm gonna... It's, uh, my, my initial reaction is potential, uh, 'cause it should be about potential. Just depends on how long that potential takes to materialize. So, uh, I think it has to be a bit of combo when I think of that answer
Nicole Hammond: Hey, I, uh, based on your answers right now, I think someone would love to come work for you, Al. I mean, this is great. This is [00:29:00] great. Um, referrals or sourcing?
Alastair Schirmer: Uh, referrals. Yeah
Nicole Hammond: Uh, All right, AI that recommends or AI that acts
Alastair Schirmer: Uh, legislatively, I have to say the first, uh, in terms of AI that recommends as opposed to it acting. Um, increasingly, I think the, the administrative stuff, the AI should act, right? Let's, let's hand that over
Nicole Hammond: Uh, faster hiring or better hiring?
Alastair Schirmer: better hiring?
Nicole Hammond: Now we're gonna move to the fun stuff. That was all the, the, the good, good professional RPO stuff. Yes, it's done.
Alastair Schirmer: Okay. All right. All right
Nicole Hammond: we'll get to the good stuff. Um,
Alastair Schirmer: Okay.
Nicole Hammond: Chat or Teams or Slack call?
Alastair Schirmer: Oh, coffee chat.
Nicole Hammond: or ocean?
Alastair Schirmer: Oh, great question. Um, I'd probably index towards mountains. Um, but no, I love both
Nicole Hammond: or vacation?
Alastair Schirmer: Uh, vacation
Nicole Hammond: And I am going to make you choose gin or spiced rum.
Alastair Schirmer: damn it. This is where I was giving away my secret sauce, right. Um, I'm c- I'm gonna [00:30:00] be controversial And say both, 'cause I can do that can't I? You gave me the option to choose both, so I'm choosing both.
Nicole Hammond: Right.
Alastair Schirmer: Hold a bottle in each hand. there you go.
Nicole Hammond: will make
Alastair Schirmer: Yeah
Nicole Hammond: happy hour with some cheese with drizzled honey, right.
Alastair Schirmer: That will keep everybody happy. We, we will, we'll still, you know, cater to the masses, cater to the masses
Nicole Hammond: At, on the bottom of a mountain or top of a mountain, wherever we need to be.
Alastair Schirmer: Both would work well. Yeah. Gin by the, gin by the ocean and spice rum up the mountain. There you go
Nicole Hammond: Well, it has been a pleasure, Al. Can you share with our listeners, our audience, where they can find you or connect with you?
Alastair Schirmer: Uh, yeah. I mean, look, uh, obviously your, your audience can connect with me up on LinkedIn. I'm more than happy, uh, for the audience to find me there. So it's, um, yeah, Alistair Schirmer, uh, on LinkedIn. Look me up and connect. That would be great
Nicole Hammond: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you everyone for listening or watching or both as we learn our this or that can be both. Um, this has been another episode of Hiring Happy Hour. We hope you learned something. We hope that you saw the true impact that Al can [00:31:00] make and has made, and, uh, we hope you join us again in the future.
Thank you all